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Generator for 189

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Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: Wish List
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12997
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 3:38pm
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Topic: Generator for 189
Posted By: Babysaph
Subject: Generator for 189
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 2:12pm
Will a Honda 3000 run all of the stuff on my 189

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Dr. J.R. Chambers II



Replies:
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 5:00pm
It probably won't run the AC compressor and the microwave at the same time, but either of those devices individually and everything else, yes.

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Alan
2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod"
2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4
Three cats


Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 11:12am
I think you will need a 3500 watt genny to run a 13,500 btu ac? 

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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 11:30am
Originally posted by Motor7

I think you will need a 3500 watt genny to run a 13,500 btu ac? 

My Yamaha 2400ishc runs my air con.  I can't turn on the microwave without turning off the air, but that's never been problem.

There are compromises no matter what generator you choose.  My priority was quiet running (with enough power for the air).  A bigger generator might be better but weight goes up faster than watts so you really have to think about how you're going to load and haul a 3000+ watt genny.

And be aware that at most campgrounds there are quiet hours that prohibit generators, and sometimes they aren't allowed at all.  I always check beforehand.

TT


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2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 11:34am
Originally posted by Motor7

I think you will need a 3500 watt genny to run a 13,500 btu ac? 

I run my a/c on a Honda 2k (nothing else can be turned on at the same time). The Honda won't start the standard a/c, but if you install one of these it will start just fine. 

https://www.microair.net/collections/easystart-soft-starters - https://www.microair.net/collections/easystart-soft-starters


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 5:11pm
I run my AC on a 2K Generac. I do disable the converter charging loop. If I have to recharge the battery I don't try and run the AC.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by mcarter

I run my AC on a 2K Generac. I do disable the converter charging loop. If I have to recharge the battery I don't try and run the AC.

mcarter, does that 2kw genny actually start a 13.5K BTU ac without an easy start? Very interesting if its able to. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2019 at 3:46pm
Yes Sir it does. I have no east start. I spent the better part of a day testing this. What I learned and reported was I had to disable the charge circuit.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 7:18am
Originally posted by mcarter

Yes Sir it does. I have no east start. I spent the better part of a day testing this. What I learned and reported was I had to disable the charge circuit.

Disable the charge circuit = ??   I think my box will be different than yours, as it is different than my 172 was. But how do you "disable" the charge circuit?  I have a circuit breaker labeled " converter " , not sure if that might do it.


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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 9:32am
Originally posted by mjlrpod

Originally posted by mcarter

Yes Sir it does. I have no east start. I spent the better part of a day testing this. What I learned and reported was I had to disable the charge circuit.

Disable the charge circuit = ??   I think my box will be different than yours, as it is different than my 172 was. But how do you "disable" the charge circuit?  I have a circuit breaker labeled " converter " , not sure if that might do it.
That would do it. Turn off the main breaker for the converter, and the converter (AKA charger) should be off.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 9:57am
It seems to me, if you have to remove a normally small load to run the A/C on a 2000 watt generator, that it may not be able to run the A/C at higher altitudes.

Generators lose power at high elevations....so I wonder what the elevation is/was during this work-around?

I was camping at 9500 feet elevation a few weeks ago, and just to confirm it, I ran the roof air with my 3500/4000 watt Champion generator. There was a bit of a 'groan' when the compressor kicked on but everything ran just fine, including operating the microwave simultaneously.

I did not add the loads of the electric water heater element or the electric space heaters or electric counter-top burner, but the converter was powered on the entire time.




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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:03am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

That would do it. Turn off the main breaker for the converter, and the converter (AKA charger) should be off.

I thank you much sir. I will have to get around to trying that. I am currently busy making a new hanger system for the black tank drain pipe. I'm not waiting till it falls off going down the highway. Brand new 2020 and I need to crawl under and replace the worlds cheapest sewer pipe hanging design, using a strap that I wouldn't use to hang a toilet paper holder. They crack right on the bend because steel tends to fracture when it's bent, especially at 90 degrees, causing a weak point. Maybe people should u.p.s. them a piece of 1/8 thick stainless steel to put on their trailer when they order it.  I think if I buy again, I will not buy an r-pod if this idiotic system is still being used. 


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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:20am
No doubt about it, FR needs to do something about the pipe hangars for both the black and gray tanks. In my observation, that seems to be one of the top bug-a-boos on R-pods.

However, I haven't really looked around to see what other makes do in this regard.

On a positive note, I've installed my own beefed up hangar, and we have not had an accident. Big smile


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 5:14pm
First, I don't think that charging circuit is a "small" load. Of course depending it's operational status. Secondly, numerous members have posted running their ACs with a 2K, all of which disable the charge circuit, and lastly 9000 feet is a bit difficult in TN, so I agree, not tried, but who in the heck needs an AC at 9000 feet:)

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 6:12pm
Well, sure, if the converter is charging then it is larger draw...but probably no more than about 5 amps or so on the 120v side, but that will taper down to less than a couple of amps as the battery becomes charged, tapering down even more when there are no 12v loads. But if your batteries are that low, then you probably will need to alternate the use of the roof air with battery charging. Hmm...sounds labor intensive. 

And yes, my test of the genset running the roof air and microwave was just that, a test. It was mild up there near Cloudcroft, and we were outside in the shade of those tall pine trees most of the day.

But, still, it can get pretty hot up there (or any high spot) if the conditions are just right. Anyway, the fact that the genset loses some power at high elevations will affect some campers, at least sometimes.


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 6:27pm
Honestly I don't recall the amp draw of the charging circuit, as I do recall GlueGuy discussed it at one time awhile back. Could be wrong, but I think 5 Amps is low, I think it was more toward 8 Amps. But all in all I can run an AC off a 2K genset in my local and somewhat extended area. AND I'm not the only one who can do this.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 7:39pm
Understood....and it's a good solution for you, but might not work for others when camped at high elevations...just sayin...

Cool


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: Babysaph
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 9:05pm
I can't imagine camping this time of year without being able to use the AC at night

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Dr. J.R. Chambers II


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:12pm
If you camp in higher elevations and/or more northern latitudes it's doable. 




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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2019 at 10:18pm
The amp draw of the converter is highly variable depending on the state of the batteries and other loads. Theoretically, the maximum draw on the typical R-pod converter is 45 amps on the 12V side. That translates to 4.5 amps on the 120VAC side. But if you aren't running a lot of 12V stuff, and the batteries only need a trickle charge, the load might only be 1 or 2 amps, which would be 0.1 or 0.2 amps on the 120VAC side.

So the bottom line is "it depends".



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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:47am
Originally posted by Babysaph

I can't imagine camping this time of year without being able to use the AC at night

Check your campground rules. Many, probably most, do not allow genset use at night, so planning on using a genny overnight to keep cool wouldn't be an option.




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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 6:08am
I've run (not started) my ac on my Honda 2K at 3000 feet and was Ok but I doubt it would have handled it much higher (all other ac loads off). A lot depends on how hot it is as the current draw of the compressor increases as the pressure differential between the evaporator and the condenser increases in hot weather. I took a couple measurements and on a 90 degree day with an inside temp of about 78-80 I was seeing 15.3 amps load from the a/c at 115V, or about 1760 VA. The continuous duty rating of the Honda is 1600 VA so I'm over the rating a little but it handled it OK. Here is a graph from Honda about altitude derate, it indicates 70% at 9000 feet, and that assumes rejetting the carburetor. 

http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf - http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf

So I wouldn't expect to be able to run the a/c at 9000 feet but when would anyone need to?

What really interests me with mcarter's report is starting, not running the a/c. My Honda (and most everyone else's reports I've read) wouldn't come close to starting the a/c without the easy start. So I'm curious what the difference is in mcarter's setup. Maybe his genny has a heavier flywheel that can carry it through the compressor startup surge? Just speculating...

But there is


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 7:41am
My generator has peak capacity of 2400 watts and it's never had a problem starting the a/c, without turning off the converter.  It can act a little iffy until it gets the a/c going, but that's it.

As for a/c at night, about the only way to count on that is to camp where there are electric hookups.

TT


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2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 8:04am
+1 to Tars, I have started and run my AC with Converter ON, but it can be iffy, found that disabling the charge circuit takes the iffy out of start run.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas

My generator has peak capacity of 2400 watts and it's never had a problem starting the a/c, without turning off the converter.  It can act a little iffy until it gets the a/c going, but that's it.

As for a/c at night, about the only way to count on that is to camp where there are electric hookups.

TT

Some folks report that 2400 watt gennies start the a/c OK, others don't, but it seems to be fairly unusual for a 2kw to do it reliably without some type of soft start system. On mine I notice that the second or third cycle once the a/c has built up the refrigerant back pressure seems to be quite a bit harder than the first cycle where both sides of the compressor are at the same pressure. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 1:05pm
Here is what did. My RV tec told me you can only run the AC on low, start fan, let run for about 5 min to cool the AC down then start compressor. Never had a problem, once the AC was running watts dropped down to 1480 

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If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.




Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by offgrid


So I wouldn't expect to be able to run the a/c at 9000 feet but when would anyone need to?


All summer long in the Southern Rockies the daytime highs can reach 85 to about 100 degrees. Not everyday, but fairly often.

Nighttime lows are USUALLY in the 50s to 70s...but if one goes to bed early, and the camper has been in the sunlight all afternoon, the A/C (and generator) might be needed.

Checking the Cloudcroft weather today,7/17, the highs will be in the mid 80's, and elevation there is around 8600 feet.

Timberon NM will hit about 90 degrees, at about 7000 feet.

Grand Canyon Village in Arizona will hit close to 90 degrees today, at about 7000 feet, but it's normal to be close to 100 degrees on the Kaibab Plateau (7000-9000 feet elevations) where many RVs can be found in parks and campgrounds. 

Southwest of Carlsbad NM, up around 6000 feet at the BASE of the Guadalupes near Pine Springs in West Texas, it is often over 100 degrees all day long in the summer. 

Just a few examples, there are many more locations that are high AND hot.

I realize some of you are at lower elevations and might be un-aware that these higher elevations (especially in southern lattitudes) can be quite warm, so it really depends are where you are camping.

Just FYI, my current home base is about 3500 feet, and if I head west 100-300 miles, I quickly get into 4000-7000 feet elevations without even heading into any mountain ranges...that's just the average terrain elevations...and that open expanse of desert and foothills and rolling terrain (and campgrounds) can get REALLY hot in the afternoons in the summer.




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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

 
All summer long in the Southern Rockies the daytime highs can reach 85 to about 100 degrees. Not everyday, but fairly often.



Yeah, I know that afternoons highs can get up there even at relatively high elevations, I lived in AZ for many years and camped often on property on Humphrey's peak above Flagstaff at the 8800 ft elevation level. Not once did I feel any need for a/c there. It would get into the 90's on a hot day but very low humidity so quite comfortable. And always cool at night. A far cry from the sticky 80 plus percent humidity at 80 degrees all night long as we get here in the South. For me, as long as its cool at night I don't need the a/c. We're outside all day anyway while camping so its pointless to have it running.


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 3:31pm
 
Originally posted by marwayne

Here is what did. My RV tec told me you can only run the AC on low, start fan, let run for about 5 min to cool the AC down then start compressor. Never had a problem, once the AC was running watts dropped down to 1480 

1480 watts or 1480 VA? Note that with an ac motor load you have a power factor less than 1 so watts do not equal volts x amps, it equals V x A x power factor. So the power factor of the a/c unit results in watts load being less than VA. 

And, knowing the inside and outside temperatures when you make the measurements is critical. The compressor load goes up, NOT down, as you run the a/c and these temps stabilize. That is because the pressure differential across the compressor is proportional to the temperature differential. The higher the temp difference the higher the pressure difference and the higher the current load. Those higher currents will translate over to higher startup currents the second and later cycles of the a/c.

I just measured mine again. Fan on low, outside temp 86, humidity 79%, inside temp 78, 114.6V, 15.0A, or 1719VA after it stabilized. Took about an hour.  It was about 12 amps right after startup.  A little less current than I got last year but its a bit cooler today than it was then. I don't have a true power meter available but podwerkz measured his power factor last year at 0.95 so if my unit is the same that would translate to 1633 watts. 

So, those of you who are running your a/cs on a 2kw without a soft start circuit, you  might want to try this to be sure you can stay cool on the genny:  pick a hot day in the 90's or higher, run the a/c with the thermostat set where you normally want it until it cycles off and then let it come back on on its own. See if it will start, stabilize and run on that second cycle. If it does, great. There might be something different about that generator or a/c unit from mine.  Mine wouldn't do it till I put in the easystart. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:24pm
Offgrid,

I agree with your actions and assessment 100%. It gets to 90's here, and I have verified your conditions. If and when I can't pass my test I will apply the easy start. Until then I'm fine. AC is a low priority to me. I have other things I want a small genset to do, that's why I stayed small. Appreciate your input.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: crankster78
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 6:05pm
Greetings:
The August issue of Trailer Life has a article about installing a "soft start" on the AC.  It covers the topic well.

Crankster78


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Crankster 78 R-179 2015


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:01am
Originally posted by mcarter

Offgrid,

I agree with your actions and assessment 100%. It gets to 90's here, and I have verified your conditions. If and when I can't pass my test I will apply the easy start. Until then I'm fine. AC is a low priority to me. I have other things I want a small genset to do, that's why I stayed small. Appreciate your input.

And I agree with you 100% on multiple uses for a smaller generator.  I never lift more then 50 lbs anymore, one herniated disk surgery was enough for me. For me, when it was clear my existing generator wasn't going to be able to start the a/c, it was a choice between getting a second Honda 2k to nrun in parallel and the easy start. That choice was pretty obvious from both a cost and weight basis. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold



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