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Brake Controller

Printed From: R-pod Owners Forum
Category: Non-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: Mods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
Forum Discription: Same as podmods, just... not for pods
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13277
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:46pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.64 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Brake Controller
Posted By: David and Danette
Subject: Brake Controller
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 10:59am
 On our way down to Florida our brake controller malfunctioned it is a Tekonsha  Prodigy P-2. We pulled into a rest area I checked wheels and they were very hot and there was a humming sound coming from the wheels apparently the brakes became engaged by the malfunctioning brake controller. It is in shop now having bearings repacked and brakes checked for ware or damage. The service tech said there is a pendulum that swings in the brake controller and for some reason swung and got stuck he removed the brake controller and shook it and reconnected it and started working normal again. Has anyone heard of this happening before? I finished the rest of our trip with brake controller turned off about 200 miles without trailer brakes keeping a safe distance from vehicles in front of us. Now I am deciding if I should take the chance of it happening again or replacing controller with a new one. We have had our current brake controller since about 2009 when we bought our 2009 r-pod.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab





Replies:
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 12:21pm
The P2 and P3 are pretty much the standard, and don't fail often. I don't know that they have a pendulum, I thought they had accelerometers. Since they are not expensive, I would probably replace it.


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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 12:34pm
My https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Hopkins/HM47297.html - Hopkins InSIGHT Flex-Mount controller has performed very well. Since it separates the manual control and display from the control unit, the control unit can be placed where it won't be kicked and the other parts put where they make sense for the driver.



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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by furpod

The P2 and P3 are pretty much the standard, and don't fail often. I don't know that they have a pendulum, I thought they had accelerometers. Since they are not expensive, I would probably replace it.
  I just picked up camper and the brakes were checked and they are OK thankful for that, another tech gave me the same answer about the pendulum when I was picking up camper. Perhaps they are both wrong I don't know they do a very big trailer business that's all they do. The second tech said he has known it to happen before. So if it has a pendulum or not it is working now. I am thinking perhaps I should buy another brake controller to be safe. My first thoughts when it happened was what if they caught on fire and the trailer caught fire they were hot and had a burning smell. But I think it must of just happened as I was approaching the rest area I think I would have felt the brakes on if I was driving down the interstate. Campers seem to have more problems than automobiles but yet campers are less complicated. Everything is working now hope it stays that way for a while.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 1:39pm
If there is a moving part in the controller (I don't know, I'm speculating), the controller needs to be mounted horizontally to prevent it from "sensing" deceleration. If it's mounted in such a way that you might push it up with your knee or something, it might be fooled into thinking there is deceleration.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 1:55pm
 I did a internet search and the Tekonsha P-2 does have a Pendulum and I think GlueGuy you are maybe right and I have it mounted at too much of a angle never had this problem before and maybe I did hit it with my knee and the pendulum got stuck. I don't know but it is mounted in a fixed position maybe a jolt caused the pendulum to get stuck. It seems strange after several years this happened I may need to replace it like Furpod said it is not worth the risk of something serious happening.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 7:51pm
One of the reasons I like the OEM brake controller in our F-150 is because it doesn't care about level. It is tied into the OBD-2 system, and gauges brake pressure directly by how hard you're pressing the brake pedal. You can watch it on the trailer status display when you're sitting still, in park. As you press harder on the pedal, the trailer brake increases gain.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 4:42am
Originally posted by David and Danette

 I did a internet search and the Tekonsha P-2 does have a Pendulum and I think GlueGuy you are maybe right and I have it mounted at too much of a angle never had this problem before and maybe I did hit it with my knee and the pendulum got stuck. I don't know but it is mounted in a fixed position maybe a jolt caused the pendulum to get stuck. It seems strange after several years this happened I may need to replace it like Furpod said it is not worth the risk of something serious happening.



Where did you see that the P2 has a pendulum? That is very old tech, I can’t imagine it would use that, it costs more and is less reliable. Everything I’ve seen indicates that the P2 uses a solid state accelerometer (like your smartphone has). It is capable of being mounted in any position as long as it is kept level side to side. That indicates that it can measure accelerations in two axes (along its length and depth but not it’s width). I use a P2 and nave it mounted nearly vertical, work fine.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 6:07am
   I found the information on e-trailer from a 2011 answer from one of their techs. He said the P-3 uses a inertia accelerometer activated by a pendulum circuit. If that is the same thing the technician was referring to that repaired our trailer I don't know. If it does not have a pendulum of some sorts and the our brake controller malfunction because of some faulty electronics then I think it should be replaced. Our P-2 brake controller is about 10 years old don't know if the technology changed but I am thinking it is the same as the P-2 controllers built today. I think for the correct answer I would need to call the manufacturer. I am thinking about the P-3 the price is about the same as a P-2. One thing for sure I am not a electrical engineer.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 8:13am
I found a couple of e trailer responses stating that the p2 has an accelerometer. So, I think you're on the right track to call Tekonsha and ask to speak to a tech about it to get a definitive answer. I called them once on how their electric over hydraulic mode works and they were very helpful.

Pendulum or accelerometer aside, probably you do need a new controller, that's a lot cheaper than replacing cooked brakes and bearings. In the meantime you can keep an eye on the voltage output reading on the P2 and stop if it shows anything other than zero when you're not using the brakes. I don't think there is any practical difference between the P3 and the P2 unless you tow multiple trailers and can make use of the P3's memory functions. 

Electric trailer brakes are 1950's technology, so sure they're simple but not very reliable and need a lot of maintenance and adjustment by today's standards. Hydraulic disk brakes with active (antilock) technology on modern vehicles are worlds better. Vehicles are far more complex yet last much longer and need much less maintenance now than they did 60 years ago. And it doesn't help that our trailer brakes and axles are made as cheaply as possible either. 
 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 8:36am
P2s and P3s both have accelerometers. There are vertical mount specs as mentioned and it is recommended that it be horizontally level. I have owned both and they are relatively inexpensive. I still have one vehicle with a P3 installed. Differences between the two not very clear, however the P3 info says it works with electric and hydraulic brakes. Peace of mind I recommend you replace the "sticky" one.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 8:38am
Info from etrailer. The P2 # 90885 will be easier to learn on and use than the P3, # 90195 initially. The P3 has several features the P2 doesn't including the ability to change the LED screen color, change the language, and the biggest difference is the diagnostics. Instead of flashing a code you would have to look at the P3 has clear messages telling you what the problem is.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 9:40am
   I called manufacturer and was told the P-2 does not have a pendulum it has as been said by our very smart members that it has a accelerometer. Was told not to replace it and that if it happens again to unplug to let the electronics in the controller reset. It has never happened before in the past and if it only happens once every 10 years I am happy. I will just need to be careful to pay attention to the lights on display. If it happens again within a few months I will buy a new one.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 1:30pm
+1 to mcarter, despite what Tekonsha says defending their unit I would replace the P2 with a new one. Having to constantly worry and watch that your existing one doesn't smoke your brakes again isn't worth the replacement cost. Worse yet, it might distract you at a critical moment and end up causing an accident. 






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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 1:47pm
+1 to Offgrid, I wouldn't have a suspect controller.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 2:55pm
  I agree with you and am considering it should be replaced but I am thinking what the factory representative had asked me which was several questions. He had asked me if our truck has been used to jump start another vehicle or have I done any changes to the trucks electrical system my answer was no. But after I talked with him I remembered the truck was in for three recalls and remember one and maybe more they had to reprogram the truck. I leave the controller in the truck all the time connected to the electrical system. Maybe that had something to do with it maybe disconnecting the controller which has not been done in possibly three years and that disconnecting the controller yesterday allowed the controller to be reset. I thought the tech at tropic trailer was correct but I found out he was wrong and now I am thinking the tech from the manufacture is correct that I should continue to use the controller. I am trying to process all the information and be patient to hopefully make the right decision. I have learned that the electronics in the controller are sensitive and can be affected by changes in the trucks electrical system. But I am leaning more now to go ahead and replace but there may be a chance it will be OK maybe agreeing with the factory tech. I will give it more thought I put safety as a priority I think in time I will make the right decision. I thank everyone for their help that's why I have stayed with this forum there has been so much helpful information from everyone. Perhaps what has happened to our controller will be helpful to someone else to understand the electronics of a controller.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 3:36pm
According to etrailer the P2 goes into a power saving mode a few minutes after you quit driving, meaning it is never truly off unless you disconnect it, so it could well be that the tech did just that yesterday which reset it. 

But I doubt that it got locked on from your recall visit if that was awhile ago. You would have noticed hot brakes on an earlier trip. Either way, that leaves unanswered why it got locked on now.  That is not an adjustment issue, there is no normal operating mode where that should ever happen, the purpose of the accelerometer is to make the braking action proportional to your rate of deceleration while using the TV  brakes. No deceleration or braking should mean no voltage out of the controller to the trailer. 

So, the P2 was hung up. Even though it wasn't due to a stuck mechanical pendulum, could be that the potentiometer that the manual slide lever is attached to got stuck. Or frozen software for example could do pretty much the same thing. And we've all had that experience haven't we? LOL 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 4:43pm
   I ordered a new P-2 but will need to rely on the old one until I get back home. I think I made the right decision. Thank you

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 4:58pm
I think you did too.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 7:11am
+1. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Woodmiester
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 2:14pm
I would replace that controller in pretty short order!

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Swampfox


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 6:46am
Originally posted by David and Danette

   I ordered a new P-2 but will need to rely on the old one until I get back home. I think I made the right decision. Thank you
      We made it home safe from south Florida about 800 miles with old brake controller. Brake controller worked fine no problems still kept a eye on it after using brakes but thankfully it never got stuck again.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 6:54am
Good to hear. BTW, did you wind up needing to replace your old brakes and/or bearings due to overheating? 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Good to hear. BTW, did you wind up needing to replace your old brakes and/or bearings due to overheating? 
  The brakes were checked and said to be OK they did though replace bearings and caps all included in a rebuild kit. The bearings on trip were very cool and brakes worked fine. We are set to travel with new brake controller that arrived in the mail.

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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab




Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 1:55pm
Thanks for the update. Interesting that the brakes and drums were undamaged but the bearings were overheated. I would have expected the opposite.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 3:38pm
Yep, +1.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 6:25pm
  I don't know if bearings were damaged because the brakes over heated. I bought the camper used the previous owner traded it in after a few months for a larger camper it is a 2018 and I never got around to repacking bearings. My thoughts the bearings were untouched since it came from factory and Tropic Trailer recommended for a few dollars more to replace bearings. I put about four thousand miles on camper since buying it before having bearings repacked so they may have been damaged.

-------------
2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab





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