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Proper carrying of propane tanks

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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13379
Printed Date: 05 May 2024 at 4:51am
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Topic: Proper carrying of propane tanks
Posted By: StephenH
Subject: Proper carrying of propane tanks
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 1:47pm
This subject came up in my mods. I installed a LiFePO4 battery inside which freed up the battery rack. I thought I might carry an extra tank there but found that there is insufficient vertical room for the tank. I remarked as such and Offgrid affirmed my conclusion.

Geewizard asked, "Why isn't it ok to carry a propane tank on it's side?" and remarked, "I have a horizontal 30 lb propane tank in my truck camper.  It has the same valve as any other propane tank."

My comment was, "If you look at both a standard tank that is meant to be carried upright and one that is meant to be carried horizontally, you will see that there is a difference in valve placement. For the propane tank to work properly, the valve must be above the liquid level so that vapor is drawn off to go through the system. A standard tank would have the valve below the liquid level when the tank is full. A horizontal tank has the valve offset so that when it is installed, the valve is above the liquid level. That is my understanding of why it is not okay to transport a standard 20lb cylinder on its side."

I think this is important enough to need its own topic. I also think this is something that should be part of a FAQ on safe transportation and use of propane.

I have looked at different LP tanks on Amazon, and see that some that look like converted vertical cylinders have the valve offset so that the valve would be above the liquid level when the tank is mounted horizontally. These appear to be suitable for use either vertically or horizontally. They need to be filled while in the vertical position.

True horizontal tanks are meant to be mounted in the horizontal position and not moved for filling. These may have the vapor valve at the same or a lower level than the fill valve, but there must be some sort of internal tube in a case like this so that only vapor will be drawn off and not liquid when these are properly filled and used. As I do not have one to cut apart and see how it is made internally, I must speculate, but think this is likely a good reflection of the actual construction. However, if someone has better information, please add it so this will be an accurate and more useful discussion.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS



Replies:
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 2:02pm
That is exactly the situation. You want to draw vapor, and not liquid, so that requires that the pickup be at the top of the tank. Tanks designed to be mounted horizontally don't have the outlet at the end of the cylinder, but at the side AND they can not be rotated (to keep the pickup inside the tank at the top).

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: geewizard
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 2:29pm
Indeed true.  Thanks for the clarification.

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2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD
2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper
2014 Toyota Tundra DC


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 3:46pm
I don't see any issue with carrying in a mount, on it's side. Just swap it into the upright rack before use.

Or, now that you have extra room, move the existing tank rack as far towards the body as possible, and see if you have room for an extra (3rd) tank on the A frame in front of them. Our current camper has this arraignment... Called "tri Five" by the manufacturer



Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 7:49pm

Now I know why it is unsafe to transport or store 20 lb propane cylinders on their sides, especially if they are full enough so that the safety relief valve would be covered by liquid propane.

I might consider changing from a single-tank mount to a dual-tank mount now that I have made the changes. I don't think the tri Five would be workable for me.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 10:50pm
Carrying two 30 pounder tanks, vertically in the rack, will get you about the same amount of propane as three of the 20 pounders. 




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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 5:41am
30 pound cylinders would not be easy to get in and out of a rack like the one I have now because of the Stromberg-Carlsen  Trailer Tray which limits the space above them. However, a dual-rack which does not have the ring would work as they could go in from the sides instead of having to go over the ring.

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 8:21am
Yeah they do get kinda heavy when full. No problem tho, just install a small motorized lifting crane in the back of the tow vehicle!

Tongue <<you always have to insert a smiley like this or SOMEBODY will take the joke seriously!


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 8:38am
Believe it or not, I thought about that when I was thinking of getting a larger generator. Smile Seriously though, I just ordered a double 20 lb tank rack, auto-changeover regulator, and Camco cover. I will need to figure out how to mount the rack. The original rack is welded to the A frame. I may cut the square section out and use the remaining parts to bolt the new rack in rather than drilling holes in the A frame or trying to use U bolts around the A frame to hold the rack in place. That decision will wait until the rack arrives though and I see where it fits best and can clear the brackets and jacks for the Hensley Cub hitch.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 9:04am
The applicable standard for design of propane systems on RV's in the US is NFPA 1192, Chapter 5. You can set up an account and get free access to NFPA standards for personal use here. That will also get you access to the national electric code (NFPA 70) and maybe some other useful specs. 

https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/All-Codes-and-Standards/Free-access - https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/All-Codes-and-Standards/Free-access

I did a quick scan and the only thing I saw that might be an issue with moving the propane cylinders back toward the trailer box is the requirement that the cylinder pressure relief outlet be a minimum of 3 feet from any appliance intake or exhaust port. So the water heater might possibly get too close. If it is you can pipe away the pressure relief vent. 

But you should probably read through the standard yourself, I didn't spend a lot of time scanning it. 






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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 9:39am
I'm going to ask a dumb question, though far from the first in my life.  When you start adding steel racks, extra propane tanks, and other cool stuff on the tongue of your trailer, aren't you adding an awful lot of tongue weight that can affect your weight/balance?  Propane is pretty easy to find most of the time and one tank lasts adequately for most camping. 

If you really need more propane, then you can get a 30# or a 40# tank.  They'll just be a little taller in the existing rack with no need to change anything, except, perhaps, for a little longer propane hose.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 9:46am
StephenH can afford to add more propane because he removed his lead acid batteries from the tongue, and if I was planning a trip to Alaska I'd want to carry plenty of propane too.  But for the rest of us, yes, your question is not dumb at all. 

I wouldn't want a 30 lb tank personally because that would eliminate the option of swapping tanks out at a convenience store. The other solution is just to carry an additional 20lb tank in your tow vehicle. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 9:51am
Originally posted by offgrid

StephenH can afford to add more propane because he removed his lead acid batteries from the tongue, and if I was planning a trip to Alaska I'd want to carry plenty of propane too.  But for the rest of us, yes, your question is not dumb at all. 

I wouldn't want a 30 lb tank personally because that would eliminate the option of swapping tanks out at a convenience store. The other solution is just to carry an additional 20lb tank in your tow vehicle. 

The Beauty of a truck... My spare tank is in the bed!


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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 11:12am
I carry a spare tank too, sometimes even 2 spares, but they're in the truck bed not on the tongue.  And if I really want to be explosive, I can lug along our 10 gal. tank along with the others, at least in theory.  But in our rural part of the world, propane is pretty ubiquitous so there is no real need to carry a lot.

The only time I bought exchange tank propane was when I had a tank that was getting a little old and I wanted a newer tank.  I exchanged the old one for one that had a very recent date on it.  That exchange tank propane is pretty pricey, when you can to the local farm supply or rural gas station and get it for much less.  Too bad Gas Buddy doesn't list propane in its app.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 11:44am
Its perfectly legal to transport propane cylinders in an enclosed vehicle. You just can't carry more than 90 lbs propane inside, and the cylinders can't be bigger than 45 lbs.  The cylinders have to be secured properly on a flat surface, regardless of whether you carry them in an open truck or inside. If the cylinders are in an open truck and less than 45 lbs they can be on their side, in an enclosed vehicle they have to be upright unless smaller than 4.2 lbs. This is per NFPA 58 for transport of propane (as opposed to mounting propane tanks in or on an RV). 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by lostagain

 
The only time I bought exchange tank propane was when I had a tank that was getting a little old and I wanted a newer tank.  I exchanged the old one for one that had a very recent date on it.  That exchange tank propane is pretty pricey, when you can to the local farm supply or rural gas station and get it for much less.  Too bad Gas Buddy doesn't list propane in its app.

As I travel, off the beaten path, I find less and less areas to re-fill. It's getting to the point of swap-out happens more often. 

I do carry my tank upright and have a spot in the bed (under the tonneau) sectioned for it, no chance of moving. I like having the spare (never know where or when you'll run out) and the time to re-fill as we travel through areas. A tank will last us 1-2 months of use depending on heater use. Meaning, I do run out somewhere on the road. 

Maybe it's an insurance thing, I don't know, but it's just harder to re-fill the tanks as we travel. Seems they've gone to swap-out...


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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 2:54pm
When we traveled in the winter, I was having to fill a tank every two or three days because it was so cold out. I do carry a spare now in the bed of the truck. Changing to a dual-mount means that I can have the auto-switchover which means that I won't run out in the middle of the night and have to run out and change it if we were to do cold weather camping again. Otherwise, it is purely for convenience as I can better utilize the tongue space to carry the dual tanks plus a 5 gallon gas container outside. I had one gasoline container leak and it ruined part of the truck bed lining which did not make me happy at all. It was one of those gas cans that had the spout attached at the bottom that swiveled down and then a push button was used to activate the spout to dispense the gasoline. It worked well for filling the generator, but the pressure vapor pressure generated when it was closed and the temperature went up overcame the seal, causing the leak. Unfortunately, it was outside the warranty period. I definitely gave that product a one (only because I couldn't give it a zero) star review!


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 5:52pm
Consider converting your genny to propane if you carry more than one cylinder. I did that with my Honda and its great. No smell or mess, oil plugs and carb stay nice and clean too. The kits have a selector so you can always go back to gas if you want to. I never will. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: tcj
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 6:22pm
Don't transport a propane tank in the horizontal position.  If the valve gets broken off it will become a rocket.  I used to lay one of those 30 gallon tanks down in the bed of a pickup to transport up to a fire lookout.  The propane guy warned me to be very careful doing that.  He said he saw one go through a cement block wall.


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2018 R-pod 180 Hood River Edition


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Consider converting your genny to propane if you carry more than one cylinder. I did that with my Honda and its great. No smell or mess, oil plugs and carb stay nice and clean too. The kits have a selector so you can always go back to gas if you want to. I never will. 

I would like to do that but I did not see a conversion kit for a Generac iX2000. I'll have to look harder.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 6:56pm
Try Century Fuel Products, good folks. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 7:09pm
Century Fuel Products has the iX1600 in its listing, but not the iX2000. However, the same kit may apply to both models. I'll have to ask next week when the business is open.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS



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