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Solar Panel

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Topic: Solar Panel
Posted By: Michiganders
Subject: Solar Panel
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 8:19am
Anyone have the adhesive roof mounted panel from Forest River? How many watts is it ? Happy with it ?



Replies:
Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:46am
I have a 2019 179 which I have mounted 4 Renogy flexible 100 watt panels on the roof and have 2 portable 100 watt Renogy flexible panels.  The way I setup my solar array is very controversial and whether to use flexible panels attached to the roof with adhesive but that is the way I set it up.  I am happy with the performance of my system.  Right now they are covered with snow and just waiting to go to work and go to South Carolina, Florida, and New Mexico in very short order.

By the way there is going to be a Michigan Pod rally up in the Traverse City area June 18 to the 21 if your interested in seeing the mods others have done to their R-Pods, you can find the specifics on the rally under the events tab of this forum 


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Jay

179/2019


Posted By: Michiganders
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 9:34am
Thanks for your help. Would like to go but , looks like dates are booked already.


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 2:06pm
Just checked with the owner of the Holiday Park Campground for site availability for the Northern Michigan R-Pod Rally in June.  The following sites are still available: 159, 167-170, 175-178, most between 213-220.  Reserve today before these remaining sites are spoken for.  

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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: Michiganders
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 7:28pm
Did the Renogy plug into the plug on roof ?


Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2020 at 8:38am
No the panels did not plug in on the roof.  My RPod is a 2019 179 which was "wired" for solar only from the batteries up front to a plug in the near the rear entry door.  Not wanting to penetrate the roof with another hole (a place for a possible water leak) I chose to run the solar panel wiring 1+ and 1- down the front of the trailer through a specially bent piece of PVC piping and run under the trailer coming up through flooring near the water pump.  That is where I connected the solar charge controller and a zantrex switcher, inverter, converter. 

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Jay

179/2019


Posted By: Michiganders
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2020 at 9:09am
Ok, thanks. Ours is rewired & has the plug on roof.


Posted By: KB7LAK
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2020 at 5:23pm
What are the plugs called that are on the roof for solar? I have a 2019 172 and I want to wire in a 200 watt set of panels. It says it's wired for solar, so is there a wiring diagram or schematic to how all this wires up? I bought some used lithium iron phosphate batteries that will run the camper. I just want to extend them beyond the 40 amp capacity they have. One of the 2 wiring harnesses has a charging voltage on it when the trailer is plugged into shore power, and the other does not. This tells me there's different places these voltages go.
Does anyone have a schematic of the 172?


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2020 at 5:47pm
The zamp (or whatever brand) connectors are wired directly to the battery(ies). No need for a wiring diagram. If there is more than one connector, they are most likely just wired in parallel. 200 watt solar panels would produce (at a maximum) only about 16 amps. In reality, they would probably provide about 13 amps maximum. You would need over 500 watts of solar to produce 40 amps.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 8:42am
Originally posted by KB7LAK

What are the plugs called that are on the roof for solar? I have a 2019 172 and I want to wire in a 200 watt set of panels. It says it's wired for solar, so is there a wiring diagram or schematic to how all this wires up? I bought some used lithium iron phosphate batteries that will run the camper. I just want to extend them beyond the 40 amp capacity they have. One of the 2 wiring harnesses has a charging voltage on it when the trailer is plugged into shore power, and the other does not. This tells me there's different places these voltages go.
Does anyone have a schematic of the 172?

No schematic but as GlueGuy says the circuits are pretty simple. Assuming by "two harnesses" you mean the 4 wires connected to the tongue mounted battery, one pair of these should go to the solar connector on the side of the trailer, the other pair (the ones with voltage on them) to the ac charger and dc fuse panel. 

You do not need to use the existing wires going to the solar connector. Many folks find it more convenient to run their own conductors from their batteries to their charge controller and on to their solar modules. Either way, please DO install a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery, it is unsafe to run an unprotected circuit from the battery, if you get a short you can burn up your trailer. 

Use at least 10 gauge wire and a 30A fuse. If you plan to keep your solar modules portable and run a longer set of conductors to them (over about 20 feet one way) then go to 8 gauge wire to keep your voltage losses down. 

You will need a solar charge controller configured for lithium batteries and should change out your ac charger as well, lithium batteries need a different charge protocol than lead acid batts. Also, you should not attempt to charge lithium batteries when they are below freezing, so many folks relocate them to the inside of their trailers from the tongue so they stay warm. 

When you say you want to extend beyond the 40 amp capacity of the batteries you have, I think you probably mean 40 amp hours. Amp hours are a measure of battery capacity. Amps are a measure of instantaneous power from the battery (assuming a nominal 12V battery).

 If you add 200 watts of solar to your system that will produce around 12-13 amps at full sun as GlueGuy says. Over a typical 4-5 hours full sun on a decent day you would get around 50 amp hours, more than what your battery can take even if you start with it fully discharged. What I'm leading up to is that 200 watts is really too much for a 40 amp hour battery. I would suggest staying with about 100 watts of solar and consider getting more battery capacity first before adding more solar (assuming you need more). 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: KB7LAK
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 10:50am
That was a thorough answer!
I bought some smart batteries that will take a regular charger.
Valence batteries. Yes, 40 amp hours. 2 40 amp hour batteries.
100 watt panels, I just got at harbor freight, and it has a charge controller.
Do I have an inverter or do I need one? I think if I don't need A/C, I can dry camp for a few days with batteries, propane, and solar panels.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 11:18am
Originally posted by KB7LAK

That was a thorough answer!
I bought some smart batteries that will take a regular charger.
Valence batteries. Yes, 40 amp hours. 2 40 amp hour batteries.
100 watt panels, I just got at harbor freight, and it has a charge controller.
Do I have an inverter or do I need one? I think if I don't need A/C, I can dry camp for a few days with batteries, propane, and solar panels.

Are the two 40AH batteries you got 12V or 6V?  If they are 12V then you will be connecting them in parallel and will have 80AH capacity. if 6V then they need to be connected in series so you will have 40AH capacity. 

40AH is small for most folks, even though you can use most of that capacity with Li batteries. You should still not use more than than about 80-85% if you want to get long life out of them. So that's about 35AH in practice. 

All Li batteries are "smart" in that they need a battery management system (BMS) to be operated safely. So, be careful to really understand what protections the BMS your batteries have provides. If you overcharge Li batteries they can catch fire. The WFCO charger in your rPod left to its own can overcharge them. WFCO and others make different chargers meant for use with Li batteries. 

The other consideration besides overcharging is excessive discharging. Lead acid batteries can run as high as 14.4 V charging and as low as 11-11.5 V discharging. Li batteries have a much narrower voltage range, so if you have a Li battery that charges up to 14V it will be fully discharged around 12.5-13V. In other words, you don't want to discharge a Li battery to as low a voltage as you would a lead acid one. A battery monitor will help you to track your battery state of charge. They are available pretty inexpensively these days. 

Re inverters, no you don't really need one. You can't run your a/c on battery anyway, it takes waaay to much energy. That leaves your microwave and TV as the ac loads in the trailer as it comes from the factory. You can get a dual voltage TV pretty inexpensively, so that can be run efficiently on 12V. The microwave can in theory be run for short periods (a few minutes at most) from an inverter, but you'd need at least a 2kw inverter for that and a 40AH battery probably can't produce enough current to run it. So if you do without your microwave while boondocking you won't need an inverter unless you add some other ac loads to the trailer.     




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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: KB7LAK
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 12:40pm
12v batteries. I will connect them in parallel and have 80 amp hours.
I'll use the charge controller that came with the panels.
There's USB ports around, so the kids are ok. The TV may run off the batteries, not sure yet.
80 a may run the microwave. I don't have both batteries installed right now to test it.
I just wish there was better documentation with these things. Who has something?


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 2:05pm
The standard TV in rPods is 120vac only, you will need to swap out for a dual voltage TV or get an inverter. Here is a dual voltage one as an example but you should get one the same size as your existing one so it fits. 

https://www.amazon.com/Supersonic-SC-2211-22-Inch-Widescreen-Compatible/dp/B0066AE4M8/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=12+volt+tv&qid=1584211081&sr=8-3 - https://www.amazon.com/Supersonic-SC-2211-22-Inch-Widescreen-Compatible/dp/B0066AE4M8/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=12+volt+tv&qid=1584211081&sr=8-3

80 amp hours of LI battery is good for most folks.  It should provide enough current to run the microwave but you would need to buy a 2KW or larger sine wave inverter. Like this for example:

https://www.amazon.com/WZRELB-Converter-Power-Inverter-Generator/dp/B077GK4WQ3/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=OOHNnSQz.vOtGCJtY-J83A&hsa_cr_id=5036620940001&ref_=sb_s_sparkle&th=1 - https://www.amazon.com/WZRELB-Converter-Power-Inverter-Generator/dp/B077GK4WQ3/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=OOHNnSQz.vOtGCJtY-J83A&hsa_cr_id=5036620940001&ref_=sb_s_sparkle&th=1

It will draw something like 150 amps from the battery running the micro so you will want to locate the inverter as close to the battery as possible and run at least 1/0 gauge wire to it from the battery, which is big stuff. 

If the charge controller that came with your solar modules is not set up for Li battery charging you should consider very carefully before you use it. Again, lithium batteries can catch fire if overcharged. Proper wire sizing and fuse protection for all the system components is also critical for safety. 

Documentation? There are numerous online resources. For lithium batteries and batteries in general I would take a look at batteryuniversity.com.  That's probably a good place to start. 










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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: BMJ
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 2:51pm
Anyone tried the 100 watt 20 amp portable suitcase to keep the battery charged? So far seems to be working well, don’t use much other than a few lights, fan, and water pump.


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 3:40pm
We have a 100W panel and it does just fine if you keep your energy use moderate and aren't parked in the shade.

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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: BMJ
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 5:28pm
Thanks


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 8:50pm
Welcome from another Virginia based rpoddder. I’m a retired solar engineer and project manager. If you can keep your 100 watt solar module out from under the trees (even partial shade kills performance) and you don’t need to run your vent fan too much during the summer then you should be fine. Where you might run into issues is in the late fall when there’s less sun and you need to run the furnace fan. You can always get a second module if that becomes a problem for you. Have fun!

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 25 May 2020 at 9:21pm
We also use a 100w Renogy suitcase set and love it.  We have about 35" of wiring that lets us pu th the panels in the sun.  It keeps our 2 6v GC batteries usable for days on end. We are frugal power users that mostly boondock. We don't use the water heater or the AC. We use solar lights (Luci brand) and heat water on the stove, refrig is always on propane. We do have a 750w inverter for charging electronics.

The Renogy system is easy, seems to be well built and is in a very durable storage case. We have used it for 3 years and are happy.
Vann


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Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179
https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9">


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Pod People

We also use a 100w Renogy suitcase set and love it.  We have about 35" of wiring that lets us pu th the panels in the sun.
                                                                                                              ^^^^^
I think you meant 35' (feet) not "(inches) Big smile
The Renogy system is easy, seems to be well built and is in a very durable storage case. We have used it for 3 years and are happy.
Vann
+1 We have not used ours much outside of testing as our camping plans got changed by the current situation. However, it looks like camping in NC is opening back up so I hope we can do so soon. Instead of 2 6V batteries, I now have a single 100A LiFePO4 battery. In my testing, the panel worked quite well. If we do not have shore power, we use propane for those things that need it, to include hot water. I installed a couple of 12V outlets and a couple of USB outlets in our 2016 RP179. I use one of them for my CPAP machine. One USB outlet is used to charge our phones at night. The other 12V and USB outlets (actually, a triple-outlet with two 12V and one USB outlet) gets used for a 12V fan to help circulate air, especially if we don't have shore power and are not running the AC and other miscellaneous uses. I do have a small 100w inverter that is used periodically to run the television (cheaper than buying a 12V TV) and a 350w that rarely gets used. Most often, that is used in the truck to charge laptops while we are driving.

I also installed a Renogy RNG-DCC1212-20 DC to DC charger for the LiFePO4 battery that is able to supply much more power than the Frontier could through the stock 12V supply. I will be able to use that if sunlight is inadequate to charge the battery if shore power is not available also. In addition, if I want to be able to run the AC or the microwave, I do have a generator, but we don't need to use the microwave and if the weather is moderate, can skip the AC also which means we can leave the generator home and save the weight.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 9:33am
The problem with the cheap little 100 watt inverters are that they are "modified sine wave" which really means they are "modified square wave". That makes them electronically noisy and inefficient, and over time they can damage electronic devices connected to them. Its a cleaner, more reliable, and more efficient solution to get a 12Vdc/120Vac TV and dispense with needing an inverter at all. The 12V TV's aren't expensive and you can sell the old one on Craigslist for a few bucks. They bolt right up to the existing wall mounts. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 6:27pm
Supersonic televisions are the only ones I saw that were as low as $132. My small inverter works and cost a whole lot less. Other brands, including Jensen and Free Signal were all well over $200. However, that is a separate issue from solar power. As little as we watch television, the solar panel and battery we have would power the little inverter and the television which appears to work quite well using it for a long time. Most often though, we turn it on only to find that there either is no signal or a weak signal. Even if there is a signal, there is usually nothing worth watching anyway. Ermm

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 May 2020 at 6:42pm
I have the supersonic one, works fine. I sold the ac one that came with the pod on CL for $35. I have a couple of small square wave inverters but don't like them, never have. Noisy both electronically and audibly, and I've had electronics damaged by them. I never watch regular TV even at home so don't miss it travelling, but I do watch movies from my collection or stream NF and HBO while travelling so use the Tv quite a bit, especially on rainy days. It is not a separate issue from solar if you use the TV a lot as the inverter wastes a significant amount of energy, requiring more solar and battery to compensate. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: CamFrye
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 4:24pm
JR,

We are looking to do a roof mounted flexible panel as well. I'm curious to know what adhesive you used and if you had any insight or advice you'd be willing to share?

Thanks.


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2020 R Pod 172
2019 Subaru Ascent


Posted By: 190 Fan
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:28pm
Hi Guys, I am new to this forum and I am not sure if I am replying in the right place. I recently purchased an RPOD 190 2021.5. I am looking to complete the solar panel kit installation. I purchased the Go Power Overlander 190 watts with the 30 amp Bluetooth controller. I installed the panel on the roof with 3m VHB tape and covered the feet with Eternabond tape. So far I have done 2 trips from my home in Indiana. One to Michigan and one to Cave country in KY. The panel have held intact . I am happy with the installation. The part I have not finished is connecting the wires to the controller. When I looked behind the solar wire label I only found 2 10 gauge (Red and black) wires coming from the roof. No other wires. The wires were like a loop. When I pull the wires there is no end. I did not want to pull any more. Can anyone provide any advise on how to complete this connection on my 2021 RPOD 190?
I will appreciate it


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 3:07pm
First, glad you got a glass/aluminum frame solar module. Much better choice than a so-called "flexible" modules with a polymer front surface. I would recommend using mechanical fasteners to augment the 3M VHB tape though the tape is not a reliable attachment system (ask me how I know).

Re the electrical connection, I believe that the continuous loops of wire go from the roof to the battery and you are expected to cut them to add in the controller. But, to be sure, if you don;t have a multimeter, get one. Use it to confirm where the wires go.

 To do that first see if the there are two wires at the battery that look to be the same as the ones behind the label and on the roof. If there are then disconnect them from the battery, use the dc V scale on your meter, and confirm there is no voltage between them. If there isn't then use the ohms scale to see what the resistance is between them. Should be showing an open circuit (very high or infinite resistance). Then, short them together. Then go on the roof, confirm there is no voltage between the two wires and confirm zero (or very low) resistance. Then you can short those together on the roof. 

Then you can safely cut the two wires behind the label, strip them, and confirm zero (or low) resistance on each of the two pairs. If you're not sure which pair goes to the battery and which to the roof, disconnect one set and check the resistance with your meter again. At that point you will know for certain which wires go where so you can disconnect the two wires from each other at the battery and roof and complete connections to your controller, solar module, and battery, being cautious to get the polarities right. 

Add an inline fuse at the + battery terminal if there isn't already one there. If the wires are 10 gauge you can use a 30A fuse, 20A for 12 gauge wire.



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: 190 Fan
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 3:47pm
Offgrid,
thanks a lot for you recommendation on the wiring. I will follow your advice.
On the panel installation to the roof what I did is that I added 1 foot of heavy aluminum angular segments in addition to the small ones that came with the kit. After I installed them I covered everything with Eternabond tape (as recommended by Hobotech) to avoid moisture and dust to get into the VHB tape. After the 2 trips I have checked the panel and tried to lift it with strong force but I do not see any movement whatsoever. I will keep monitoring and let this forum know how it goes. I saw in the tape specs that it holds up to 145 lbs per inch. For each foot long 2x2 angular segment I added I covered it with 2 lines of one inch VHB 4950 tape. I put 4 - 1foot long segments in addition to the small ones that came with the kit. If you think about it I applied 96” of VHB tape. The key was to ensure that both surfaces were extremely clean. I cleaned everything several times with alcohol solution and let it dried before applying the tape and installing the panel on the roof.

As soon as I learn how to attach a picture here I will show what I did.

Thank you again for your great advice.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 4:36pm
Yes, VHB can work well if the surfaces are very clean with no metal oxidation and there is absolutely no moisture present during application. Its a pressure sensitive adhesive so you also need to apply quite a bit of force to activate it. That's hard to do if you have a large surface area. We had 30-40 kilowatts of solar modules blow off a roof that were attached with VHB tape. The remaining 60-70 kW was still well attached, so its hit or miss. We never were able to clearly determine why some areas held and others didn't.  After that fiasco I still used adhesive attachments for some projects but never without also having mechanical fasteners. Fool me once....

Click on the little tree icon an it will walk you though attaching a pic. Its a 2 step process. upload then attach. Also don't attach too big a photo, reduce the resolution first. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: CamFrye
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 5:15pm
190Fan,

Offgrid recommendations are right on. I'm only going to add some detail from the installation of the solar controller on my 172:

When I exposed my wiring by removing the little knock out panel in my upper cabinet behind the solar sticker, I could see the two 10 Ga wires (mine were brown and yellow) coming out of the roof, coiled inside the cabinet, and exiting back into the ceiling near the center of the camper (on it's way to the battery):



The bottom of the MC-4 port on the roof was visible from the inside of the cabinet, as were the wire nut connections from the port (red and black) to the trailer wiring (brown and yellow):



I tested the wires and MC-4 port, marked positive and negative (I could also locate the yellow and brown wires where they tied to the battery), disconnected the battery, tested them again... repeated that again because I wanted to be 100% sure... and finally cut the wiring in the cabinet. 

I connected the wires from the roof port (without the panel connected) into the correct terminals on the controller, did the same with the battery side, hooked everything else up and had a bit of a tantrum because the controller wasn't in "charge" mode. It took me about an hour and a half of being an idiot to find out I had a bad MC-4 connector and when I replaced it, everything worked great.

Good luck. 


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2020 R Pod 172
2019 Subaru Ascent


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 5:47pm
MC4's are great connectors but there is a learning curve to getting them installed right. They have a lot of specs they have to meet, they are actually rated for up to 1000Vdc in big commercial grid tied solar applications. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: 190 Fan
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 6:38pm
CamFrye
Thank you for the additional information. With offgrid’s detail advice and with your pictures and information I feel in a better position to complete the installation of the controller.

Thank you and offgrid very much!!


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 6:39pm
MC4's are okay if it is going to be a relatively permanent connection. However, if it is going to be plugged and unplugged frequently, then powerpole connectors are the way to go.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 7:00pm
Good luck getting full sized solar modules without MC4's, they have been the defacto solar standard for many years now. The original manufacturer is Mulitcontact aka Staubli in Switzerland but there are now multiple Chinese knock offs.  

MC4's are fine to be disconnected and reconnected but to meet the National Electric Code all solar module connectors must require a tool for removal. That is a safety requirement so that people can't go wandering out in a solar array and disconnect the modules by hand and electrocute themselves with 600 or 1000Vdc. They are NOT approved for load break, meaning that you need to disconnect the solar module/array somewhere else first so that there is no current flow when you disconnect the modules. Solar is always on when the sun is shining so there has to be another way to disconnect the module(s), otherwise you will draw an arc. Its not a big issue at 12Vdc but at 600Vdc I can assure you that it gets pretty interesting.LOL


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: CamFrye
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2020 at 10:20am
190fan,

Just to go overboard: here are a couple photos of the solar controller mounted:






Good luck with the install.


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2020 R Pod 172
2019 Subaru Ascent



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