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Attaching Items to Walls ???

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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13471
Printed Date: 05 May 2024 at 11:16pm
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Topic: Attaching Items to Walls ???
Posted By: rPodCamping
Subject: Attaching Items to Walls ???
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 5:15pm
My wife and I are new rPod owners............in fact, ours is still sitting in Ohio awaiting to be picked up.  Like many of you we plan to make some modifications like attaching light-weight racks, clocks, etc. to the internal walls in several places.  I realize that it depends upon the weight of the item.......but we would appreciate any recommendations on the best (and worst?) methods to attach items securely to the wall.  Also, for heavier items (~10 lbs) is it possible to drill into the wall to use something like a toggle anchor bolt?   Thanks in advance for your time.   





Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 5:55pm
I'd suggest that you take a look at an rPod construction video before attaching stuff to your interior walls. It will help you to better visualize what you have in there. You have a pretty thin luan layer with foam insulation behind that. It would be hard to get an expansion anchor to expand into the closed cell foam.  If you are attaching to the side walls and can find the 1 inch square aluminum tubes then you can probably attach something that weighs 10 lbs or more, but if you're just into the luan or in the curved roof areas which don't have aluminum tubing then not so much. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXNYA73rCNE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXNYA73rCNE


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 7:02pm
Thanks very much, I do appreciate it.  


Posted By: geewizard
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 7:45pm
We use Command hooks and fasteners.  There's a variety of styles and strengths.  Home improvement stores have them as does Amazon.  They work well.

https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/command/ - https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/command/


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2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD
2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper
2014 Toyota Tundra DC


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 9:02pm

Great.............we will check them out.  Many thanks.................... 


Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 9:40am
+1 geewizard we use velcro command strips and we have even used it on a large cribbage board, after I take it off the wall and my wife beats me in a game of cribbage I can then hang it back up on the wall as a piece of folk art the command strips work well

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Jay

179/2019


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 11:13am
 I can definitely relate to getting beat by my wife at cribbage.............too frequently.   Ouch

Sounds like this Command brand is highly recommended, and it looks like they are available from Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, and other big box stores.  

Thank you for the feedback.  Stay safe.............   I hope we get to go camping this year.  


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 11:23am
I've had Command stuff fall off walls before. Seems like it adheres well initially but once its there for few months it often seems to fail.  I suspect humidity causes it but don't know for sure. One good thing is that the hangers came off clean and didn't mar the wall finish. Can't say the same for the stuff that fell down though.Wink

Also note that something that weighs 10 lbs will effectively weigh 20-25 in a trailer going down a bumpy road, so plan accordingly.


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 12:23pm
Ok, thanks.  

Forgot about the ride down the road potentially making items heavier and knocking them off the wall.  Maybe we take everything done before we go down the rood......

Have you ever tried to use a standard stud finder to locate wood or metal 'studs' (or whatever the correct term used for trailers is...........)?  Guess I'll give it a go when we finally get the trailer to our home. 

Appreciate your thoughts..............  


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 1:21pm
Good question.  I haven't tried a stud finder. The side walls have aluminum square tubing so I'm not sure a magnetometer based detector will find that. The old school stud finders with the magnets in them wouldn't. The new imaging ones ought to work.  

You might not need that though, you can know pretty close where to look if you review the construction videos, mostly the aluminum frames the doors and windows. Use a tiny drill bit to make a pilot hole, worst thing that happens is you seal up the little hole with a bit caulk. Don't drill all the way through the wall though, its only an inch. Embarrassed


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 3:02pm
We have successfully combined a mechanical fastener, such as a short coarsely threaded screw, with 3M super double sided foam tape.  < http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-23154/3M-Double-Sided-Tape/3M-414-Scotch-Extreme-Mounting-Tape-1-x-60?pricode=WB9107&gadtype=pla&id=S-23154&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxarGt_rC6AIVguNkCh06wg7cEAYYByABEgI30_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds%20 - https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-23154/3M-Double-Sided-Tape/3M-414-Scotch-Extreme-Mounting-Tape-1-x-60?pricode=WB9107&gadtype=pla&id=S-23154&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxarGt_rC6AIVguNkCh06wg7cEAYYByABEgI30_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds > The tape is inserted between the wall and the thing you are attaching to the wall, but there has to be enough surface area on the item being attached or you won't get strong adhesion.  We never had anything come off.  But, 10 lbs. attached to the wall is really heavy and, speaking for myself, I'd want multiple fasteners, with all being attached to a structural member for something like that. 

Just for fun, before posting this, I weighed our 10" Lodge cast iron skillet.  It weighed 5 lbs.  I'd never hang something like that on a trailer wall, even with a fastener going into the aluminum frame.  Aluminum is famous for giving way to constant pressure, I think they call it cold flow, and eventually the fastener would likely pull out.  For things of that weight and up, I'd want it through bolted with washers or multiple fasteners all attached to a structural element.  

I tried two different electronic stud finders, one with a metal setting, and got erratic results.  I can't speak for others, but the ones I have are too unreliable, even though they find metal studs in my house just fine.





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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 4:54pm

So.........it sounds like I was unrealistic about the amount of weight I could mount to a wall (heck......I'm not sure I have anything near that heavy in my home attached to a wall).  But this 3M tape looks very promising.  Again, thanks to everyone for all the great feedback.  


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 5:21pm
+1 to Lostagain. Stud finders are unreliable, and I have some good ones. The frame is not a standard frame as one would think. It basically follows windows and door in sidewalls.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 6:30pm
On a cool night and a warm camper the studs will show off on the outside of the walls and humidity helps (I think that is what is needed) and that Cribbage board has stayed on the wall for about 13,000 miles or until my wife want to play a game but I have used 4 - 16 lb strips, little over kill

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Jay

179/2019


Posted By: geewizard
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 7:49am
I've used this product on a number of applications and it's VERY strong.  Don't expect it to ever come off and plan accordingly.  I haven't used it yet in my Pod.  I got mine from Amazon.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/vhb-tapes-us/ - https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/vhb-tapes-us/

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Heavy-Mounting-Multiple-Sizes/dp/B01EOEW25S - https://www.amazon.com/3M-Heavy-Mounting-Multiple-Sizes/dp/B01EOEW25S


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2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD
2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper
2014 Toyota Tundra DC


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 8:01am

Thank you MCarter, JR, and geewizard................

It sounds like there are some very strong tapes that will do the job - but we better be sure where we want things attached !!!   Wink  


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 8:39am
Originally posted by lostagain

Aluminum is famous for giving way to constant pressure, I think they call it cold flow, and eventually the fastener would likely pull out.  For things of that weight and up, I'd want it through bolted with washers or multiple fasteners all attached to a structural element.  

lostagain, cold flow (aka creep)  is a phenomenon that occurs with some materials when they are subject to mechanical stress at elevated temperatures. That is what the problem has been with Al household wiring from the 70's. Poorly designed and installed electrical terminations get hot from the current flow and then the Al creeps, getting looser and looser until the terminations wind up catching fire.

That shouldn't be a problem with mechanical fasteners at normal temps. Another property of Al can be a problem with those. Steel has a fatigue limit, meaning that stresses imposed below that level don't cause fracture (crack) propagation. Aluminum has no fatigue limit, so even low stress levels can cause crack propagation, just more slowly. That's why Al aircraft parts often have life limits, but they're usually in the range of tens of thousands of hours. 

In reality, neither of these is likely to be a concern with hanging stuff on the aluminum structure of your rPod. The parts aren't under a lot of stress to being with and the over the road stresses don't go on for a long time. 

If I wanted to hang something heavy to the outer walls I would attach it to the Al tubes, and I'd use multiple self tapping fasteners as suggested. There are specs for fastener shear and pullout strength depending on material type and thickness, or you could do a couple of pullout tests on your fastener of choice in the same material and use that information to decide how many to use. Typical good practice would be to use a 2 or 3x safety factor on top of the 2 to 2.5x bump load increase, so around 6-8x as much fastener strength as the weight of the thing you're hanging. 

As for 3M tapes, these like the Command ones  use adhesives that are in the family of pressure sensitive adhesives (PSA's). They can work well if you are careful to control application conditions, but they can also fail really badly if not applied right, if temperatures are out of range, or if surfaces you are attaching are not compatible or properly prepared. Take a look at the wikipedia article on them for example.

Personally I don't trust the adhesive tapes for anything important, especially in one off or field applications where you're not sure you're getting things perfect.  I once had a whole 250 kilowatt solar array that someone had the bright idea to attach with VHB tape come apart in a windstorm. Broken glass everywhere. Give me nice properly engineered mechanical fasteners anytime, they are much more tolerant of imperfect application conditions than the PSA tapes are. Our use both, can't hurt. 

The other thing you can do is attach your stuff to a closet wall where you have access to the other side so you can add backing material and reinforcement that will end up concealed. Then you can attach whatever you want.





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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 10:02am
I tried my https://www.amazon.com/ProSensor-710-Franklin-Sensors-Precision/dp/B0064EICKG - Franklin ProSensor on the outside of our Rpod and it did a pretty good job finding the aluminum "bones" in the wall. It's not like other stud sensors, as it actually has 13 sensors lined up across the top, and it figures out the differential between the sensors to indicate the different densities.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 10:20am
.... multiple fasteners to a structural element, kind of like tearing a phone book in half; easy to tear a few pages at a time, but real hard all together.

Ford is now using adhesive and rivets on their new aluminum bodied trucks from 3M.  I hope the chemists and engineers got it right.  Confused


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 11:09am
Originally posted by lostagain

.... multiple fasteners to a structural element, kind of like tearing a phone book in half; easy to tear a few pages at a time, but real hard all together.

Ford is now using adhesive and rivets on their new aluminum bodied trucks from 3M.  I hope the chemists and engineers got it right.  Confused

There is safety in numbers, so there are lower safety factors that mechanical and structural engineers can use with multiple fastener systems. Most wood construction works like that, multiple fasteners avoid the risk of any one being into a weak spot in say a joist or beam.

I'm sure Ford knows what they're doing and I'm not knocking adhesives, they are great in a factory environment where everything is under tight control and you can have confidence that application is consistent.  In a one off or field application not so much. 

We had an adhesion problem in the solar module manufacturing line in one of the solar companies I worked for. After working perfectly for years all of a sudden one day the clear plastic encapsulant in the module laminates stopped sticking to the glass. You could peel off the solar cells and the whole back of the module with your fingers. Everyone freaked out, factory shut down. Not good. 

Turned out that the glass manufacturer slightly changed the type of coating on the tiny plastic beads that they put between the glass sheets to keep them from sticking together. Even though we washed the glass that was enough to mess with the surface chemistry of the glass and cause things to fall apart that used to stick like crazy. All we had to do was to change the type of soap we used in the glass washer, that activated the glass surface and the stuff went back to sticking like crazy. Took awhile to figure that out though. 

Point being that you have to know what you're doing and keep everything in control when relying on adhesives. Fasteners can be screwed up too but its usually obvious when that happens.





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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Colt
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 11:41am
I used Command hooks placed on the walls where I cleaned with alcohol.  So far, so good hanging pictures and towels.  

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John
'16 R-Pod 180


Posted By: rPodCamping
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 12:06pm

Wow...............didn't mean to consume all your spare time with my question, but I thank you for all the feedback !!   

So, several folks have mentioned the use of metal fasteners, self-tapping fasteners, etc. into structural elements of the trailer.  I have only ever used simple sheet metal self-tapping screws, like this one.  Are there others you recommend?   







Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 2:03pm
Most of us can’t go camping with the virus lockdown so have time in our hands.

The photo you are showing is a self drilling self tapping screw, aka a Tek screw, the most well know brand name. The fluted tip is the self drilling part. I wouldn’t self drill, I’d drill a pilot hole. The self drilling screws are great if you’re putting in dozens or hundreds of them but you’re not. Pre drilling gives you better placement control. Self drilling screws just have a pointed tip with threads on it. Might want to use stainless steel ones, stainless is compatible with aluminum so you don’t get corrosion.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 2:05pm
I've used Everbilt Hollow Wall Anchors, #5-32 x 1 in. I had purchased these at Home Depot, but they appear to have been discontinued as I cannot find them on the HD web site. They work well and will not go through the outside wall. They are rated for 85 lbs in drywall. In the RPod, they would not be as sturdy, but they still would hold quite well, especially if they were put into one of the framing members.
From the package:
UPC is 8 87480 03782 1
HD stock # is 147694
SKU is 121 206


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 3:21pm
 I have in stalled many cabinets in our pod, there all held up by coarse thread drywall screws. I was told many times in this group and others that they will fall of the wall with the first trip you take. It has been 10 years and the cabinets are still in place.

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If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.




Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by marwayne

 I have in stalled many cabinets in our pod, there all held up by coarse thread drywall screws. I was told many times in this group and others that they will fall of the wall with the first trip you take. It has been 10 years and the cabinets are still in place.

When are you gonna take that 'first trip'?

10 years is a long time to wait.

Tongue




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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 9:42pm
Thumbs Up

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If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.





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