Originally posted by lostagain As I suggested previously, you best remedy may be to try and get you money back from the seller who may well have concealed the true condition of the trailer.

They bought this used in 2015.  I think going back against the seller at this point would be a total waste of time! 

TT

Tars, you're right about the sale date, I don't always retain every detail of every post and forgot about that.  After owning the trailer for 5 years, it would be impossible to prove that this condition was anything other than lack of proper maintenance during that time.

Its a bit of a chicken or egg question on the aluminum framing vs the plywood in the flooring. Both are contributing structurally to the rigidity of the floor. Creating a composite structural sandwich is how they are able to make them so light.   Its not like the floor does nothing but sit on the framing or vice versa.    

So if the water got into the wood floor first and weakened it the welds breaking could be because the flooring lost any strength and the welds were overloaded.  The fact that you didn't notice any gaps from the floor dropping until last year at which point the floor was wet would support that argument. It could also be argued that regardless of when the gaps occurred, you were negligent in not noticing them and addressing the leakage before the floor damage became severe. 

I'm just being the devil's advocate here. Besides the warranty limitations others have addressed its pretty easy to come up with counter arguments to your assertion as to what the root cause if the failure was. I agree with LA's recommendation, time to either move on or get into a really serious DIY project.

 If you do decide to throw in the towel, consider recovering some value by selling salvaged components from the trailer. The Dometic circuit boards for example are apparently made from some kind of unobtanium so I'm sure you could eventually get some $$ for them. Good luck!

It isn't only RPods that are subject to this happening. We know someone who lives near us who has a much larger trailer (I don't know the brand) that had a similar problem of the wall dropping. I don't know if the cause was the same, but he was in much the same situation of whether it could be repaired or not.

In this case, it looks like  a whole new floor would be needed. That is not something that would be easy as the trailer would have to be essentially deconstructed down to the bare floor to fix/replace it, then reconstructed. See any of the videos of the construction at the factory to see what that involves. I think it is too big a project unless one has essentially a factory space to do the work and the tools and expertise to tackle a job like this. Consider this one totaled, take whatever insurance money offered (if any) or do as Offgrid suggested and sell of parts to at least get some return.

I still say add the out riggers from the frame to the outside wall. I suggest this to anyone who owns an rPod (previous issues or not). Not all that hard to do and great insurance! So many other things ya'll will do, but wonder how many may this..

Belinda, this is good news! You now know why this happened structure wise and how easy it is to fix! Is there recurse, on anyone, I doubt it.. I would push Forest River, which will push it to Lippert (who makes the frames), yet would go ahead and repair it. They will jump back and forth for several months and truly waste you time. Busting them on this is still worth the effort! It could benefit others down the line.

A good MIG guy/gal can handle this without issue. Same person, t would be  breeze for the outrigger supports. Seal the leak (the source of this issue) and start replacing. You're on your way!

If this ever happens to you, give me a call. I'm come pick it up and get it off your hands. You give in way too easy...

One can push FR to do something, but the chances of success under these circumstances, are slim to none.  Yes, you can pay some welding shop person write a letter and tell FR the welding was lousy, but if you think that will be persuasive to them, I've got a bridge I'll give you a good deal on.  To have a metallurgist examine the welds and write an "expert" opinion would be very costly.  The costs of convincing FR that they messed up would far exceed the fair market value of the trailer.  .... and that's before you even thought about bringing in the evil ones, .... the lawyers.

If Olddwawgsrule is wiling to take it off your hands and is willing to drive to beautiful Ontario, take him up on it.  It's far better option than having to pay a junk dealer to haul it away.  

Oh come on now... Those welds are there to support the exterior wall, not the plywood. 

I was speaking of you! She's doing the deed.

Do you truly think that if Belinda has Geoffrey's Welding and Farm Supply write a letter saying that FR did a lousy job on the aluminum welding that FR is going to pay any attention to it?  I will give you 100 to 1 odds that they'd shrug, then send a nice letter back saying that they believe the problem was causedowner neglect and a lack of maintenance that they will not repair.  If she hires Failure Analysis, Inc. at about $1000 an hour, I'm sure in at least 15 hours of careful field and laboratory examination, plus travel and lodging, she can show that the welds were probably tack welds and could have been done better.  When FR gets the Failure Analysis, Inc. report, they will dutifully read it, admire the careful and thoughtful work, then send a letter back declining the repair because the trailer is out of warranty, is over a year old, was not purchased from an authorized dealer, and that the problem was caused by owner negligence and lack of maintenance.  Belinda will be out maybe $15-20K and no better off than she was before she went to Geoffrey's Welding.  Again, I could be wrong, and ususally am, but that doesn't seem like a very good way to spend one's money.

You stated: "If this ever happens to you, give me a call. I'm come pick it up and get it off your hands."  I suggested to Belinda in my post that she avail herself of your remarkably generous offer.  Were you making that offer to her?  Or was that just hyperbole that you were directing to me?  Best if she could sell off the valuable parts, but given the age of the trailer, there isn't much besides the various circuit boards that is worth a lot as salvage.  Your kind offer to haul it away is truly the optimum solution, if you were making it good faith, and she should avail herself of that opportunity.

Nope, you are thinking about the construction as if it were an old school stick built house, but its not.  The floors are a laminated diaphram system, look at just around 2 minutes into this video. The system depends on all the components working together to support the structure. The whole thing is glued together under pressure. The plywood is a crucial element, if it delaminates then the whole system fails. This is how the trailer manufacturers save weight (and not incidentally cost) but it makes the whole trailer much more susceptible to water intrusion. 

If you want to see the tack welding procedure its around 40 seconds in. There is no way tack welding that thin wall aluminum square tubing like that can carry the loads without the plywood glued to it. 

If you spent all the money on legal fees and expert testimony as LA referenced, FR would simply point out that this is normal construction practice in the ultralight trailer world and works fine unless the trailer has been neglected and water intrusion has occurred. 
 

Maybe hauling it down to New Hampshire, abandoning it, and escaping back to Ontario might be the trick.  

If it'd make it to NV, heck, it'd fit right in with all the other trailers that have been abandoned.  We drive by one every time we go into town.  

Dunno, rpods might be a little on the small side to be meth labs.

Acetone, benzene, ethanol, ether, phosphorous, toluene. No gasoline required for those trailers, although that is sometimes used to cook meth too. 

I think we all feel bad for Belinda and wish her the best in managing this awful situation.  

I guess if ended up with a trailer in that kind of shape, I might be tempted to consign it thru an auction house. The trailer can be listed as 'non-operable', which protects the seller and auction house. Then it is up to a buyer who KNOWS they are buying a unit with issues. 

It might bring a few thousand that way....who knows. 

OK Valid point.

If it was my trailer and I really wanted to try to save it without rebuilding from bottom up here's what I'd think about doing.

1) place trailer on jack stands on level concrete.

2) measure and pre-fabricate a steel cantilever support for the wall that has dropped. It would have maybe a 1x2 tube on edge that would run the length of the wall, with brackets that extend from the tube to the main 2x4 trailer frame rail.

3) place cantilever support structure under wall. Using several floor jacks, lift new support structure to raise wall to its proper position

4) weld brackets to 2x4 frame tube. 

5) remove jacks

Now the wall is back where its supposed to be and the floor is no longer trying to support it. 

6) So, working inside, remove all the damaged plywood, foam, etc.

7) cut new marine grade plywood to size

8) attach this plywood to the new brackets

8) make spacers the right thickness and glue them to the plywood. 

9) place foam insulation between the stringers

10) glue and screw a top plywood layer to the stringers. 

11) install new finish flooring

12) seal the bottom plywood layer from underneath

Side note: I made 2 step 8's deliberately so I could call this the 12 step program for rPod rehab. 

I'm sure you know what a SIP's panel is.. Even those when used as floors have a box end or joist between (yes plywood yet vertical). Sorry, but a horizontal plywood connection, especially the thickness used, will not hold and explains many issues I read about. If you are correct that they build as you say.. it's a design/structual issue all should be aware of.

My opinion as a design/builder of Overland Trailers. Currently two pending orders for custom builds.

The repairs OG proposes, would likely take at least a couple weeks.  Add the cost of labor to the cost of materials and specialty shops for welding of thin box tubing, and you will have probably exceeded the fair market value of the trailer.  It would be less costly to go to the 2nd hand trailer market and buy a comparable trailer than to fix it.  

If the trailer was some kind of a collector's item that had its own unique and irreplaceable characteristics that made it exceptionally valuable in a 2nd hand market, then one may want to consider a repair.  But, for heaven's sake, we are talking about a lower end of the market travel trailer that is about as ubiquitous as a bag of pinto beans.  

No one seriously argues that the damage is irreparable.  That isn't really the issue.  Sure, this trailer, basically constructed of 3 SIP panels (the floor and two walls), can be repaired, but replacing all or part of the floor panel is complicated and expensive.  Many people enjoy working on projects like that.  It's fun if you have the time and resources to pay for the materials.  Cost ceases to be an issue in that case.  But if you are not someone who owns a shop that is tooled up to work on a project like this, it will start to look like one of those old car restoration projects that goes on and on until you get tired of having the old rusty junker in your garage and haul it off to the scrap metal yard.  

Travel trailers are built with an intentionally short service life so you will frequently replace them and make companies like FR happy and profitable.  This trailer is beyond that service life.  It's time to recognize that reality.

Thank you. It is unfortunate that Belinda was put in this position. That reinforces that it is critical to keep an eye on things and to fix any leaks before things deteriorate. I had one leak that ws hard to pin down. When the water heater was installed, whoever installed the cover sealed it, but not well. The dealer added more sealant, but just added it over what was there. What was wrong is that the sealant was placed over one of the labels instead of moving the label out of the way. Water just went behind the label and into the space behind the frame where there was an opening that led into the wall. When I drained the water heater, water would come out on the underside of the trailer. It took me a while to figure out what was happening. Fortunately, I did not make it a practice to drain the water heater after every trip, so it had a chance to dry out between times. I removed the ouside cover frame and totally sealed it properly so now there is no leak. That was one leak source. Another was water coming in from the slide. It was somehow coming down and running in though the slide-out frame. My dealer removed and re-sealed the outside flange (possibly more also, but I don't recall).

This does not help, but should serve as a reminder to check out and fix any leak before it causes much bigger problems.

Yep, its like a SIP. I never said it was a good design, just that it is what it is.  I wouldn't build with SIPs in a location potentially exposed to moisture intrusion either.  There is a lot to be said for good old fashioned stick built structures where the designer isn't depending on components doing multiple functions. Unfortunately, with resources getting more scare we're going to see more and more of that going forward. 

And LA, I'm not proposing the repair steps I laid out as cost effective, just a starting point of what I would consider doing if I really wanted to save the trailer and didn't view my time as having any value. 

Come to think of it, I'm retired, my time really doesn't have any value. 

As for the value of time, I'm retired too and I feel my time is infinitely valuable, at least to me.  Every moment is precious and irreplaceable.  That's why we're leaving to go camping in a couple hours.  The value of enjoying my free time is priceless.

Luv ya dude! Your mind is nearly as bad as mind..

But not quite yet! I do believe Belinda is on the right track and at her last post and had family/doer's that can make it happen (without gas..). The can.. that could be weld material though.. I won't scrap that as of yet...  

A good start to see you know of SIP's are what they are capable of. No, the system as you explained is not only poor, it's acceptable! This floor is not a SIP as defined, yet a hybrid. Which means those joints 'need' to be welded well. Sad to see they are not and do believe if not recurse, at least a formal statement of what is found. It will help those in the future!

I have done tack welds.. shall I say.. I can still jump on today. Penetration of the weld is everything. Tack or bead. There are times that tacking or what is called sewing/stitching to us older folks is the best way to meet two metals together. Sorry, but system or not, those welds should hold on there own. 

The ability pf plywood to resist deformation when shear through its thickness is applied is very good.  IOW, its really hard to tear plywood. So, as long as the plywood and the adhesives holding the assembly together have not been compromised by water intrusion, you probably wouldn't need to weld the aluminum at all. The plywood will hold the aluminum pieces at the same level

Besides, its clear that the floor panels are adequate if not wet or we would all have collapsing rpods. 

But once wet, the adhesives and the wood plies give way and the whole structure fails. So do I think the system is acceptable? Yes, if you can guarantee it stays dry. 

But in practice it can get wet, so I too would favor better welds for that reason. But your or my personal preferences for a more robust and foolproof design doesn't make the way FR does it wrong. That's how engineering works, you give the engineer a set of specs and a cost target and he comes up with a design that meets them, If those specs don't include "oh BTW it has to stay together when saturated with water" then you'll get the kind of thing we see here. 

Cost was obviously on all of our minds when we chose rpods over better constructed alternatives, so we really shouldn't complain. We got what we paid for and know by now where most of the weaknesses are: axles, tires, the frame, water intrusion, the crappy black tank pipe hanger, etc. 

 Not only is the design flawed, but the pitiful excuse for welds is beyond belief.  The square tubing itself that make up the floor joists is only 1/16 inch in wall thickness and the Luan plywood is 1/8 inch.  I will be using the same remedy as the original post and have outriggers manufactured and welded to the frame.  The existing floor will be a mess to clean up with mold present over 40 percent of the floor space.  I will go back with a 3/4 inch marine grade plywood.  The only alternative I can see is to scrap it and sell it for parts.