Just thought I would formally introduce myself. I've already posted a few times, pre-purchase. Thank you all for helping my wife and I get comfortable with what has become our very first travel trailer.

We just purchased our brand new 2021 RP-171 from an excellent dealer in Sealy, TX ( http://Cliff%20Jones%20RVhttps://www.cliffjonesrv.com/ - Cliff Jones RV .) We're located in Austin, TX so it was a bit of drive for us to make the purchase, but Cliff Jones made it painless and took great care of us. Special shout out to the fantastic http://Princhttps://www.princesscraft.com/ess%20Craft%20RV - Princess Craft RV here in Austin though. I would have loved to purchase from them. They've been an excellent resource, even when they didn't have stock of the model we needed. They specialize in small campers and sell a ton of R-PODs. So much so that their accessories are tailored to them in many ways. And their service department are experts. They even produce a fantastic podcast focused on small RVs like our R-PODs that I highly recommend called http://RV%20Small%20Thttps://rvsmalltalk.com/alk - RV Small Talk .

Our tow vehicle is a 2017 Kia Sedona with a 3500 lbs. tow capacity. We're using a Recurve R3 WDH with friction anti-sway. Specifically the 400 lbs. tongue weight model. I can highly recommend this model as easy to use, and well aligned with the capacities of the trailer and tow vehicle. Our dealer here in Austin (Princess Craft) likes these so much that they stock the uncommon 400 lbs. tongue weight version with a 2" ball. This, as we discovered, is almost impossible to find anywhere else, but they had 12 in stock.

I've used both a http://tongue%20weight%20scalehttps://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-2000-Trailer-Tongue/dp/B007REK28M/ref=pd_lpo_263_img_1/138-6550438-4546501?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B007REK28M&pd_rd_r=63154e88-ec0d-4e19-9ab2-f20811729088&pd_rd_w=8rZNy&pd_rd_wg=GulPY&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=KEYNJ2TQPATJQTYW2RNR&psc=1&refRID=KEYNJ2TQPATJQTYW2RNR - tongue weight scale and the http://https://www.amazon.com/CURT-51701-BetterWeigh-Smartphones-Distribution/dp/B081FTQCYN - BetterWeigh by Curt to check tongue weight loaded and unloaded, as well as total trailer and combined vehicle weight loaded and unloaded and we've found that we're well under our capacity (at least 20% under) with even a fairly heavy load of cargo for our family of 4 + 1 dog. Despite that, we continue to pack carefully and check weights often. I can also confirm that the BetterWeigh tool is not snake oil. When used carefully and properly, it has provided measurements within ±50 lbs. of the tongue weight scale.

Three days after purchase, we took it on a trip to Inks Lake near Austin (a rare opportunity due to a site cancellation,) and we all absolutely loved the experience. The trailer towed extremely well at highway speeds fully loaded, and we had a great weekend swimming and fishing in the August Texas heat. While the RP-171 was definitely tight for our family of 4 (two children under 7,) it was still enjoyable. And I don't even want to think about trying to tent camp as we've done in the past this time of year.

So thanks again to everyone for their advice and posts. I've used this site far more then I've posted to it. The information is invaluable. Looking forward to being part of the community.

Yours is the first rea;l world review of the Betterweigh system I've seen. Have you weighed your rig (not the tongue weight) at a scale for comparison? I've frankly been a bit suspicious that measuring torque converter slip could be accurate enough to substitute for a real weighing....

On mine, I added a few items that greatly increase effective ground clearance. 

And thanks PodWerkz for the recommendations. I've been paranoid about bottoming out as well, though so far, we haven't had that issue once (except for an unfortunate incident when I forgot to bring the tongue jack all the way up.) I have heard, and I can't confirm this, that the latest R-POD models have made standard an older axle riser opption that gives something like 2" more clearance. But I'll keep your recommendations in mind if we start running into any clearance issues (no pun intended.)

The one thing my father and I noticed about the underside of our R-POD is that the fresh water tank is fairly vulnerable to ground debris and rocks kicked back from the tow vehicle. In fact, the whole front edge of the fresh water tank is arrayed with the level sensors, as well as the main water outlet. The sewer pipe holder might afford a bit of protection, but not much. Anyway, that's my bigger concern right now. So much so that I'm considering installing a light mylar shield in front of those sensors and the leading edge of the tank.

So far, I've done a fairly accurate tongue weight check against a credible tongue weight scale, and I've done a "cargo" weight check inside the vehicle where I knew the exact weight of the cargo. In both cases, the weight was within ±50 lbs. (cargo was within ±20.) I did learn that it's best to let it settle (the measurement is refined as it gets more measurements to generate an average,) and it's best to take a few measurements (there's usually at least one outlier from some unexpected force.)

And I've discovered it to be quite sensitive even to the slightest pressure, which is why settling time and multiple measurements help (and turning off the vehicle for many measurements.) My initial test was on level ground in a large church parking lot on a windy day. But I couldn't get consistent measurements because the wind was moving the tow vehicle enough to severely impact the measurements. It's important to note that many of the measurements work on a calibrated model of suspension travel for the tow vehicle, measured through the tow vehicles change in angle (read by the accelerometer,) due to additional weight added to the vehicle. So wind gusts that gently move the tow vehicle are interpreted as angle changes and can, depending on how soft or firm the suspension is, equate to significant changes in measured weight.

Here are some example measurements I took.

This is a measure of "cargo" weight after calibrating suspension travel. The "cargo" is myself, and I weighted 161 lbs. on the bathroom scale just before I stepped into the third row of my minivan to take this.

 

This is a pair tongue weight measurements done in succession. My Sherline tongue weight scale was measuring ~300 lbs. at the same time (the scale is purposefully hard to get precise measurements with, so it's hard to be certain.) NOTE: This was the best out of about 5 tests I did, and it was in that windy parking lot. But they were all between about 270 lbs and 340 lbs., with one outlier at almost 390 lbs. Note that my WDH weighs about 85 lbs. and the RP-171 dry tongue weight is specified at 250 lbs., but I never confirmed what its actual dry weight was without my hitch, so I don't have an accurate measure for my specific unit. Still, this all feels "in the ballpark" enough to build some confidence in the device.

After the tongue weight test, I tried out the WDH tuning feature and again, it got pretty close. Note that this was taken a day after purchasing the trailer where the dealer installed and set up the WDH. Judging from a tape measure test, the WDH seemed well set up, and this just seemed to confirm it.

Finally, I don't have any screenshots of the combined vehicle weight measurements that it's capable of because it requires you to accelerate at medium throttle to 15 mph on level ground. I never thought to get a screenshot once I'd slowed down to look at the result. Interestingly, the reason for a maximum 15 mph speed is to ensure you don't shift gears. The tool needs to eliminate any variable gear ratios and there are few to no automatic vehicles on the market that'll shift out of 1st under 15mph when you've got at least half throttle.

In any case, I performed a measurement on my tow vehicle with just me inside and no real cargo and got a little under 5000 lbs. which is about right for our 8 passenger minivan. Later, with a few more humans in the car, I hooked up the trailer (dry) and did the same test. I got a bit under 8000 lbs. (maybe 7800-8000 lbs. or so) which, assuming a 2500 lbs. dry weight (as stated on my sticker from Forest River,) and the addition of the almost 100 lbs. hitch and extra humans again, seems about right.

I didn't get to do more then one measurement for combined weight (one for the tow vehicle, and one for both.) And I really want to because I think a few more measurements would give me a lot more confidence if the numbers converged. And I haven't had a chance to put it on a scale before I do this test.

But again, this isn't a perfect evaluation, but it's enough to make me listen to the numbers it's giving, and given how darn simple and easy it is, made me feel like it was worth it's $100 price tag.

From what you're saying I'd highly suggest that you still take your rig through a public scale once when loaded as you plan to travel, including cargo, gear, fuel, and humans. That will help you get your software calibrated if nothing else.

In fact, the BetterWeight is pretty explicit about these things. For tongue weight, it doesn't assume a WDH (though I included it in my measurements because that matches my plan of travel.) But for the WDH test, the tool is good enough to explicitly have you take a reading with the hitch disconnected to get trim of TV without any trailer or hitch, then with the WDH on, but without the load bars attached, to get an accurate tongue weight measurement with hitch and figure out how far out of "normal" you are, and then it gives you target settings for front and rear TV axle weight (in green on my screenshot,) to get the TV back to "normal" trim through distribution of weight. It then instructs you to attach the load bars to the trailer and tension the rig.

In essence, in this last state with green targets on the scales (which is where I took the screenshot) you're supposed to tension the rig (tongue jack off the ground,) check if you're "in the green" and if not, unload the rig (put the tongue jack back on the ground and de-tension the bars) and make an adjustment. Rinse and repeat until all the scales are in the green.

Note that it assumes the vehicle doesn't move during any of this (drive to a new location.) If you move at all, it's all invalid. It also assumes you're on relatively level ground, and recommends the engine be off to prevent any wiggle. It defines "level" as any place you can put your TV (and trailer) put the TV in neutral, disengage all brakes, and the rig doesn't move.

But, despite all that, I still agree with you. I fully intend to take it through a scale with my planned loads, if for no other reason then to complete the evaluation of the tool and prove to myself it's value completely. It's on the todo list (along with about 50 other things.)

Sounds good and I'm interested in hearing how accurate the software is in determining GCVW. 

As for "level" I'm having trouble understanding how the tool can determine whether the wdh is tensioned properly unless the rig is on a dead level surface. As soon as the TV rear axle is either higher or lower than the front and trailer axles the tension level and axle loads are going to be thrown off. 

It doesn't take much out of level to throw it off. The one time I weighed with my wdh tensioned I saw about a 100 lb difference in axle loads between entering the scale  (TV axles on the scale and the trailer off) vs exiting (TV axles off the scale and the trailer on). And the scale was only at most maybe 1/2 inch lower than the pavement at either end. 

That being said I think it doesn't really matter what either the Betterweight or scales say your wdh effect is.  The real world wdh effect is going to vary from zero to probably about 2x whatever you adjust it to depending on the flatness of the road.  If you set up the wdh on level ground per instructions  so that the front suspension height is back where it was without the trailer you'll be fine. 

Do you find the Torque app useful? 

Originally posted by offgrid As for "level" I'm having trouble understanding how the tool can determine whether the wdh is tensioned properly unless the rig is on a dead level surface. As soon as the TV rear axle is either higher or lower than the front and trailer axles the tension level and axle loads are going to be thrown off.

Agreed. And it's specific about being on a level surface (where a vehicle and trailer in neutral won't roll.) Finding a flat parking lot is essential. Luckily, I live in a pretty flat place. My driveway has just a little bit of a slope, but I've got a few big parking lots nearby that fit the bill just fine. I'll add that, for this specific test, the device might not need a truly "level" surface (as in, no roll,) but the grade must be even across all three axles, which is how you can ensure your WDH is not artificially loaded or unloaded by variation in grade between axles. Still, if your TV was on level ground, but your trailer was, for example, on a grade, putting the TV in neutral would cause it to roll, so the test method of no roll in neutral is sound for both getting true level, and getting zero grade change.

Originally posted by offgrid That being said I think it doesn't really matter what either the Betterweight or scales say your WDH effect is.  The real world wdh effect is going to vary from zero to probably about 2x whatever you adjust it to depending on the flatness of the road.  If you set up the WDH on level ground per instructions  so that the front suspension height is back where it was without the trailer you'll be fine.

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2021 RP-171
2017 Kia Sedona
Family of 4

"Let's go have an adventure!"

I've also run into this. Being the gadget guy I obviously am, I have a similar device (not a Torque tool, but something called a "Go Point" purchased maybe 7 years ago, and a third party performance dashboard app.) I use it to check system metrics like fluid temperatures going down the road. Or, as my ASE certified mechanic father told me, to watch exhaust temperature as a pretty good leading indicator of load (and overload.) I don't trust the actual engine "load" PID.

But, the BetterWeigh has pretty much zero value when you actually go to tow something to a campsite. So I just swap it out when I'm doing these tests (they're all at very low speeds anyway, so the metrics I watch aren't going to make a difference.) And when I go to actually haul my rig to the campsite, I'll swap my Go Point back in.

Or, I've also considered buying an OBDII splitter.

https://www.amazon.com/Right-Angle-Splitter-Female-Extension/dp/B07K6MWQTB/ - https://www.amazon.com/Right-Angle-Splitter-Female-Extension/dp/B07K6MWQTB/

OBDII is a bus interface, so it easily supports any number of devices (the bandwidth reduces performance, but it'll support quite a few devices.) Functionally, you're just limited by the number of connectors. So this solves that. They make a ton of variations on these. The only thing stopping me is that I don't like the dangly cables. And the OBDII port is always right at your knees, so I need to think about how I'd secure those cables properly. 

Then that's very similar to my Go Point solution. I use it with http://www.palmerperformance.com/products/dashcommand/ - Dash Command on my iPhone. I think it's basically the exact same thing. I do really like it. Tons of useful info.

I agree that if the device is measuring the difference in TV axle heights with and without the wdh tensioned then the rig really wouldn't need to be dead flat, but it would need to be on a planar surface. I was surprised how much difference in axle load a very small height change in the surface made, so I do have my doubts that "not rolling" alone would be good enough. 

You can get the front axle back to its unloaded condition with a wdh but not the TV rear axle, which will inevitably have more load on it with the trailer attached. The tongue weight has to go somewhere. So some TV squat is fine and expected. 

You might want to put your numbers in this calculator and try adjusting the assumed wdh tension, I found it helpful to understand what was going on. If you reduce the trailer weight to say 1 lb you can also see what the TV would be by itself. 

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php

My driveway is sloped in two directions. If I have my RPod leveled, then it and the Frontier are not lined up side-to-side as well as front-to-back. I keep my RPod leveled because it makes things easier when I go to get the refrigerator cooling in preparation for travel. Iwill likely take it to a level parking lot somewhere, disconnect and then use the Better Weigh to set things up and then switch back to the OBDII dongle. Right now, I have that on a cable so it does not become a target for my feet or knees. I may get a splitter instead.

Has anyone used a similar configuration or have experience with the bluetooth controller?  I can't find anything definitive, but the information on the BMW OEM hitch and wiring says not to use a WDH, so I'm assuming that I shouldn't as well.  There's nothing about anti sway.  Any suggestions?  I'm thinking that I can try it without it and see how it works and can always add it on later.

I've been going through this forum and have picked up lots of good information.  So, thank you all and I look forward to joining the "club".

Originally posted by garyg4210 ....and then to drive it from our home in Virginia cross country.  We are planning to use our 2014 BMW X3 (3.5 engine which has 300hp/300 torque) to pull it.

When you hit the tall mountain ranges out here in the west, be sure to have your roadside assistance on speed dial.

Just don't try to be the first one up the mountain and you should be okay. With AWD, you should be okay. I don't know if SumoSprings makes something suitable for the BMW, but a set of those would help with the rear-end squat of the BMW without requiring a WDH. In any case, you would be wise to consider some form of sway control. I have the Hays Sway-Master electronic Sway Control. There are other options such as the ones from Lippert and Tuson.

In addition to the hitch, you would also do well to add a transmission cooler if the BMW does not already have one.

Your problem will be weight and weight distribution. You will be either at, near, or over your TV weight ratings with that rig depending on how you load. Understand that TV manufacturer's tow ratings generally assume that there is nothing in the TV itself other than the driver. So, even if you load the trailer lightly you can still be over your max combined gross vehicle weight rating (MCGVWR), TV rear axle load limit, and/or max tongue weight. The MCGVWR along with your TV axle ratings should be listed on the sticker on the driver's side door jamb.

As for weight distribution, the problem is that when you hang the trailer on the hitch it rotates the front of the TV up, reducing the load on the front axle and increasing the load on the rear axle by more than the tongue weight.  That is bad for steering, handling,braking,  traction, etc. The solution (within limits) to that is to use a weight distribution hitch, which basically adds tensioned spring bars between the trailer and the tow vehicle to rotate the front of the TV back down. Unfortunately, some TV manufacturers disallow the use of WDH's. Look in the towing section of your manual to find out. If they are allowed, I highly recommend you get one for your rig. Many come with antisway capability, get that too.

When you get your trailer, load it the way you plan to travel (batteries, water, supplies, etc etc).. Do the same with the TV (people, gear, gasoline, etc, etc). If you got a wdh put it in the receiver and hitch up but do not tension the bars.  Go the a public scale. Sometimes you can use the scale at your county transfer station for free, otherwise you will pay a nominal charge. You will need to go through the scales twice. First with the tralier, rolling each of the three axles onto the scales one at time (or using multiple scales if that is how things are set up). Get the total weight of the rig and subtract to get the load on each axle.

Go home or to a parking lot and disconnect the trailer. Leave the wdh in the receiver. Drive through the scale again to get the weight of the TV and each of its axles.The tongue weight is the combined weight of the TV's axles with the trailer less the weight of the TV without the trailer. The trailer weight is the total weight of the rig less the weight of the TV without the trailer. 

You now have all the weights you need to compare to the MCGVWR, trailer GVWR. and each of the 3 axles. You can compare all those manually, or if you like, here is a really nice online calculator that can do it for you. Up to you how close you are willing to get to your rating limits, personally I like to be at least 10-20% under all of them. Just know that if you go over them you are essentially a test pilot and will be exploring the limits of your rig's performance envelope on your own, not to mention the potential liability risk. 

One other thing to check. Be sure that your trailer's tongue weight is always at least 10% of total trailer weight to minimize sway sway risk. Don't depend on your antisway system to save you, get the trailer balance correct. Not that this percentage can change a lot if you are carrying water in any of your water tanks, which you might want to do if you are planning any boon docking. 

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php