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Broken Front Window???

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Topic: Broken Front Window???
Posted By: FLiPisHoLLyWooD
Subject: Broken Front Window???
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 7:50am
Hey all, while driving down the highway this weekend, my front window shattered. not sure how this could’ve happened, as i’ve seen the videos on youtube testing how durable and shatter resistant the front glass is, so any insight from anyone or ideas on what this might cost to repair?

https://youtu.be/4ePiPZPkHUo - Durability Test

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2020 R-Pod 190



Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 8:23am
Did it shatter into lots of small pieces? If so then its tempered glass.  Tempered glass gets its strength by heating and then rapidly cooling the glass sheet creating a thin but very high compression (>10,000 psi) layer in the surface. If a sharp object cuts through that surface the compression layer is compromised and the sheet immediately breaks into small pieces. 

That's not what car windshields are made of, they are made of two laminated layers of regular annealed (non tempered) glass, so when they break you get long cracks like in window glass, but since there are two glass layers with an adhesive layer they hold together safely. 

So that demo is bogus if they're using tempered glass, because the guy is striking it with a rubber mallet not with a sharp object like a rock. How many times do you see a rubber mallet flying at you on the highway?

In any event, you should contact FR for a replacement window. Maybe your trailer insurance policy will cover it. 





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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Badweissenbier
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 8:26am
Shattered or is it a spider web looking cracks. Look for an impact point usually where the cracks converge.
If it just shattered it may be a bad installation and you can warranty it.
If it has an impact point and spiders from there your probably going to have a hard time getting them to cover it.
Good luck


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 8:52am
In the video you can see the window bend inward when struck or jumped on....so it's probably acrylic, lexan, or polycarbonate, or some similar derivative commonly called 'plexiglass'.

Maybe they use different suppliers, or because of a shortage of these, and installed actual glass in some of the recent units.


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:06am
Hello and welcome!
I would contact my dealer if I were you and see if it can be replaced under warranty. This is a new trailer and the front window should not be shattering during normal driving. In my opinion (for what it is worth), there should be a cover for the window that can protect it while the trailer is being pulled. Even if this is (according to the video linked in your post) windshield quality glass, something is causing them to shatter. Therefore, having some sort of cover for travel would be prudent.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:28am
Tempered glass will flex like that too. But you're probably right, if you look close you can see what appears to be a piece fly off right at the end of the video. 

So not tempered glass and not laminated windshield glass. So that window has nothing in common with automotive glazing which is either one or the other. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 10:40am
Originally posted by offgrid

Tempered glass will flex like that too. 

I've NEVER seen automotive tempered glass flex like that.

Tempered glass is extremely hard but also extremely brittle. (not talking about phones and tablets here) 

If you know this to be true, that large curved sheets of tempered glass can flex like a trampoline, you have managed one factoid that has eluded me for my entire life.


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 11:15am
Originally posted by podwerkz

Originally posted by offgrid

Tempered glass will flex like that too. 

I've NEVER seen automotive tempered glass flex like that.

Tempered glass is extremely hard but also extremely brittle. (not talking about phones and tablets here) 

If you know this to be true, that large curved sheets of tempered glass can flex like a trampoline, you have managed one factoid that has eluded me for my entire life.


Best friend works for AGC, the company that makes about 90% of the glass in automobiles built in the USA. He is a mechanical engineer, and does all kinds of studies on glass. I assure you, tempered glass can and does flex. Some types of glass, and different layups can and will deflect more then some others, but it does happen to some extent regardless.

As far as the front windows on campers, Just like windshields, they can break. Stuff hits them. Stress fractures. Etc.


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 11:18am
Originally posted by offgrid

Tempered glass will flex like that too. But you're probably right, if you look close you can see what appears to be a piece fly off right at the end of the video. 

So not tempered glass and not laminated windshield glass. So that window has nothing in common with automotive glazing which is either one or the other. 


I suspect the piece flying off is part of the plastic frame, not part of the window itself.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

Originally posted by offgrid

Tempered glass will flex like that too. 

I've NEVER seen automotive tempered glass flex like that.

Tempered glass is extremely hard but also extremely brittle. (not talking about phones and tablets here) 

If you know this to be true, that large curved sheets of tempered glass can flex like a trampoline, you have managed one factoid that has eluded me for my entire life.
>
Tempered glass has >10.000 psi surface compression, you have to either exceed that figure or scratch through the surface layer before it will break. It is incredibly strong, but when you compromise the compression layer all that energy gets released instantly and the glass sheet turns into a bunch of tiny pieces. If you go to the tempering furnace in a glass factory that's how the manufacturing engineers know how much surface compression they are putting in the glass. They take a piece of hacksaw blade and scratch an edge, then measure the size of the pieces. 

Solar module superstrates are 1/8 inch tempered glass. I designed and tested them for a living. In our front loading tests they had to support 113 lbs/ft2 combined wind and snow load. That is over 2400 lbs on a 1 x 2 meter standard solar module.  To put that in perspective its about 2 feet of water over the whole glass sheet. They flex well over a foot in that test and still wouldn't break unless they popped out of the frame first. 

We had a marketing manager who used to go to trade shows and jump up and down on the modules to demonstrate how strong they were. He was about 6'4" and weighed over 300 lbs, a lot more than the guy in the FR video. We finally got him to quit doing that after one of our customers installed a big solar array on a tar and gravel roof. His installation crew was walking all over the modules and broke dozens of them, not because of their weight but because they picked up sharp gravel on their work boots and scratched through the compression layer. 




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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by furpod

 

I suspect the piece flying off is part of the plastic frame, not part of the window itself.

Good point. So we are needing Flipishollywood to let us know if the window he has is glass or plastic....If glass then it should be tempered and should have broken into a bazilion pieces. If plastic, its probably acrylic, polycarbonate/lexan is very difficult to break, at least not until it has been UV damaged, which takes awhile. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 4:41pm
This is becoming a quite common complaint on the facebook V2 r-pod site. I actually hate the front window idea all together. If r-pods continue to put them on pods, I will move to a different model next time I buy. I hope within a few years when I'm looking, they will have stopped putting the front windows on. 

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: FLiPisHoLLyWooD
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 6:11pm
couldn’t get the photo to upload, so here is a link to see the broken window. it’s definitely tempered glass from what i can tell. https://www.dropbox.com/s/vaw587mmqvp7xjd/Photo%20Oct%2012%2C%208%2047%2032%20AM.jpg?dl=0 - Pic of broken rpod window

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2020 R-Pod 190


Posted By: FLiPisHoLLyWooD
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by mjlrpod

This is becoming a quite common complaint on the facebook V2 r-pod site. I actually hate the front window idea all together. If r-pods continue to put them on pods, I will move to a different model next time I buy. I hope within a few years when I'm looking, they will have stopped putting the front windows on. 


I may need to get on the facebook group if there’s a V2 forum for owners.

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2020 R-Pod 190


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 6:29pm
Yep, sure is tempered glass. Most likely a rock hit it, cut the surface layer and broke it. When FR says that it is like your car windshield they are misrepresenting, windshields are not made of tempered glass. They are laminated glass so they don't turn into shrapnel when a rock hits them. Your car's side windows are tempered glass, but those aren't subject to rocks striking them. 

If you can't get FR or your insurance company to help then you will unfortunately will need to pay to have the window replaced yourself. Then cover it with something while driving, it will just keep happening otherwise. Maybe glue magnets to the glass to hold the cover?


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2020 at 8:51am
I would make an attempt to find a plastic alternative. (lexan, acrylic, polycarbonate, etc)

Using a tempered piece up there, when the entire automotive world does not, seems inappropriate on the part of Forest River.

But, it does not surprise me especially in these days of increased demands, rapid production, inflated margins, long wait times, poor engineering, lack of quality control, and the overall apathy from the major players in the RV industry. 

But, having said that, I do like the Camping World YouTube Concert Series on Tuesday Nights,,,so there IS that.

Thumbs Up


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2020 at 9:15am
I agree that a polymer for that application would be much better. 

If someone wanted to take on that challenge then polycarbonate (Lexan is a brand name of polycarbonate just like Plexiglas is a brand name of acrylic) would be the better choice. Stronger, less brittle, and you can heat form it with a heat gun if you are careful. The problem is going to be to get the shape right and get it glazed in so it doesn't leak. Getting a leak in that area could be a much worse disaster than a broken window. 

Another thing that could help would be to cover the tempered glass with a clear vinyl layer. Get as thick vinyl as you can, the purpose would be to stop small rock chips from reaching the glass surface. If you ever get a big rock strike it would still break but that should be a rare event unless you're towing to Alaska or something. 

You'd need to experiment a bit with clear adhesives to stick it on there, and you'd want to be able to replace it after a couple of years when the vinyl gets weathered. Or stick it on with magnets. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: ArenaBlanca
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2020 at 10:02am
Many of the new camper models have these front windows so I suspect this problem will not be uncommon. Has anyone found a way to prevent this from happening?  They make "bras" for cars to prevent rocks from chipping the paint and bugs from staining it.  Do they make something similar for R-Pods and how would you secure it?  

I had a Trailmanor camper once that had an aluminum cover over the front window.  But the window had an internal wooden frame that was more secure than the sandwich material used to make the new R-Pods.


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Enjoy Life!!


Posted By: Bounder
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 3:48pm
Slightly lengthy, but there's a bunch to say here.

My wife and I just got home from an extended trip to the Oregon coast with our 196 (2021 model, but early in the model year production with the 202 graphics). We woke one morning late in the trip and discovered that our front window was shattered - completely crazed one side to the other, top to bottom with no sign of an impact visible. It had stayed in place - at least until it was touched, at which point parts began to fall out.


The calls began.

Contacted my selling dealer, who expressed sympathy but said there was nothing they could do - that FR responded better to direct calls by customers. Contacted FR - who have, by the way, a system designed specifically to make it difficult to reach human beings directly. Eventually reached, after multiple calls, Meghan in Warranty.

I described the issue to her, indicating we were on the road, and would be leaving on another trip just a short time after our return home. I told her I knew we would have to take steps to prevent further damage while moving the trailer, whether to home or a dealer or wherever. I also told her I knew the factory was nearby, and asked her to check whether there was any way of using their resources.

As it turns out - and amazingly - Meghan arranged for the factory in Oregon to have the window replaced right away. We drove the 3 hours (5 as it turned out, due to a road closure), and the window was replaced the next day. Wonderful - and a good attitude from the staff there. Kudos on that front to them and to Meghan.

As it turns out, the replacement unit was either poorly installed or has some faults of its own - that night, we had heavy rain in the California redwood forest, and the new window leaked like crazy!

The new problem has been reported, I have done my own temporary repair on the leak issue (high quality silicone sealant, used liberally Big smile), and we will see how they handle this. Also, I would swear the interior metal frame is installed top to bottom, as there is now a seam split in the bottom that was on the top with the original.

In discussion with the factory staff, I found out a few things...

  1. There has been a supply problem with these windows from the contracted supplier - I saw many(!) 195 and 196 units in the yard waiting for windows, which had apparently only arrived a day or so before my problem.
  2. There is apparently some talk of changing to a two-layer glass laminate rather than the original single-layer design. The staff member who said this described it as above his pay grade, but suggested if I thought it was important I should make my views known to management.

Since this is happening often enough to be noticed, I strongly suggest that any of us who have these windows should be loud and persistent (though polite) in telling FR that they need to make this change, and to make it available as a retrofit for those with the earlier design.




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Bounder
2021 196 Hood River


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 9:28am
I predicted this very issue the first day I saw they were putting front windows on the pods. I commented on it here a year ago. It was so simple to see. I hate the entire idea anyway. Who wants a big window right over there head in bed. It lets light, and pulls in cold in spring and fall camping. Any leaks will go immediately into the bed. The whole thing is terrible in my opinion. I hope they stop putting the front window in by the time I buy my next pod, or i'll be buying something else. I'm so glad I got my 195 before this silly decision was made. 

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 9:35am
I expect that if you were to order it, it could be ordered without the front window. I know that is what I would do.

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 9:48am
Originally posted by mjlrpod

I predicted this very issue the first day I saw they were putting front windows on the pods. I commented on it here a year ago. It was so simple to see. I hate the entire idea anyway. Who wants a big window right over there head in bed. It lets light, and pulls in cold in spring and fall camping. Any leaks will go immediately into the bed. The whole thing is terrible in my opinion. I hope they stop putting the front window in by the time I buy my next pod, or i'll be buying something else. I'm so glad I got my 195 before this silly decision was made. 


Actually this is what we have in our 177 although everything is reversed, bed and window in the rear.  After a year we got rid of the crazy curtain that was nearly impossible to open and close and got a blind from Blinds.com to easily raise and lower for instant viewing or privacy.  When it is warm out we enjoy having the blind up and being able to see outside (no one can see inside as long as no lights are on anyway).  Yes when it is cold, for us that is below 50 the blind comes down at night to keep the heat in.  The blind is a 2x cell and does a wonderful job of insulating us from the cold window.


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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: BMJ
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 9:55am
The flip side for us has been the absolute delight in lying back in bed and looking up at the night stars😊


Posted By: Danbill
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 12:03pm
I see these are older posts but this happened to us in a  campground in Arizona in our 2021 R-pod 180. Window shattered in the middle of the night while we were asleep. Larger pieces fell into the trailer and on the ground and the rest of the window completely cracked. We had been camped for more than twelve hours when this happened and there was nothing overhanging the site that could have fallen on the camper. Are there any thoughts about this- is this a delayed event from a rock strike or some kind of manufacturing defect with the way the window is manufactured or installed? I see suggestions of putting a cover to protect from rocks but if it isn't a from rock strikes it seems like it would just happen again.


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 10:34am
My personal opinion is that a window on the front of an Rpod is just not a great idea. That said, those windows should not "shatter". They are essentially a windshield and should be made of the same type of glass as the windshield of any vehicle. 

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 11:05am
It is certainly common to have a glass fracture propagate well after the original damage. We've all seen it in annealed glass like home windows and windshields. It's much less common in tempered glass like sliding doors, car side windows, and solar modules because the tempering stressed are so high that any defects usually result in a piece of broken glass in the bottom of he tempering furnace, where they just shovel it out and remelt it.

But it does happen. I once had a customer complaint about a bunch of broken solar modules on a big commercial roof array on a building with a tar and gravel roof. Turns out the idiots who installed it walked across the the roof picking up gravel in their shoes, then walked right on the solar modules. That causes tiny cuts in the tempered glass surface compression layer which is only about 1mm thick. Later in thermal cycling the tiny cuts propagated down through that layer into the inner layer which is in tension. Then boom, lots of little tiny pieces of glass held together by the solar laminate.

The compression is tremendous in tempered glass, it has to be around 10000 psi to be called tempered.
You can tell how much tempering the glass has by the size of the broken pieces. Smaller being higher tempering as you'd imagine.

So it would be helpful to get a better description of what the pieces look like. They should all be about the same size from each sheet of glass too or something went really wrong in the glass factory. You describe bigger and smaller pieces, can you give more detail about size and where the pieces came from? This wasn't a double pane insulated glad window was it?

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Danbill
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 8:13am
I don't think the window is double pane. I have a good picture of the shards but I'm having trouble uploading it. The size varies from tiny flecks to up to an inch. Thanks for your input.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 9:02am
Ok, no problem, the 1 inch max size single pane tells me it's tempered glass. It must have got a little rock chip which worked through the compression layer and released the stored energy in the sheet. Tempered glass is great but not the right stuff for a forward facing window on a moving vehicle. When you replace it cover it while on the road or it will happen again. Or replace it with polycarbonate (Lexan), that stuff is unbreakable.


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold



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