I need HELP!!!: Brake issue

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Brake issue

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Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
Forum Discription: Perplexed/need help with a problem - ask here
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14708
Printed Date: 02 May 2024 at 11:14pm
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Topic: Brake issue

Posted By: pedwards2932
Subject: Brake issue
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 9:09am

We have arrived in beautiful Maine....on the trip up here I have encountered an issue with the trailer brakes. When I checked the drum temp on one pull off an the driver side brake drums were much hotter than the other side. It was over 200 degrees but this was after several miles of stop and go traffic. I suspect the brake may be dragging or one side isn't working? I lowered the brake controller to try to decrease the brake pressure a bit. I'm hoping to get home before I take it in to get the brakes checked.

Replies:

Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 9:28am

Yes, you have an issue.

When you can, find a quiet, flat, level, dirt or gravel road with zero traffic, open your windows so you can hear, drive at about 10-15 miles per hour, then apply the trailer brake controller fully until one or both wheels lock, you will hear them scratching on the dirt or gravel and you will feel the 'tug' from behind as the trailer tries to stop the rig. As soon as one (or both) wheels lock or scratch, release and resume your previous slow speed.

Do this 3 or 4 times, then stop, set your parking brake, and get out and look for scratch marks on the dirt, and feel (or use IR gun) to see which brake drum is cold, warm, or hot.

This will help you confirm whether the brakes are in synch during application.

If one of them is not working at all, and the drum is cold, it is likely to be one of the 'scotch-blocks' that forest river factory workers install to connect the brakes to the frame wiring harness. These often fail and need to be replaced, or as in my case, I completely re-wired my electric brakes.

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r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 10:14am

What was the temp difference between the two drums? don't expect them to be the same, we're working with crude 1940s tech here. Within about 50 degrees is pretty normal.

200 degrees isn't very hot if you've been using the brakes, so I suspect the cold side isn't engaging, or at least not as much. Most likely it's what podwerkz is suspecting.

To eliminate dragging on the hot brake as the issue, just let things cool off and dial the controller down to zero and drive a few miles. If the hot brake drum still gets hot then it was dragging, if it's cool the the other side isn't engaging.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 10:54am

Just FYI...I dont think this is the issue, but if the trailer is brand new (or the brake shoes are brand new) they can be 'out of balance' for awhile until they 'bed in' or become well burnished.

The so-called 'nevr-adjust' means that sometimes one electric brake will advance and grab a bit sooner during routine or casual braking applications...becoming somewhat warmer, BUT...both brakes should apply fully during 'hard braking' events.

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r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 11:09am

This is a 2018 r189. Driver side was over 200 and the other side was 82 so it may be the other side wasn't working. I am going to keep a close eye on it when we head home....even with the controller dialed back to 2.5 I can feel the trailer brakes when I stop. I'll try setting it at zero and see what it does. Thanks.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 1:03pm

82 is close to the ambient temp. I don't think that brake us working at all. If your's is like mine, the brake magnet wires run down the left side and then make connection over to the right, so there are more connectors between the controller and the brakes on the right side.

As podwerkz suggests, you might want to take a quick look at the crappy insulation displacement connectors and see if any are open/wires hanging.

If it was me I think I'd rather have no trailer brakes than just one side working if I encountered wet or slippery conditions. Things can get pretty squirrelly.....

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 1:39pm

Sounds like good advice.....I'm guessing the Hayes Sway control will still work since it isn't part of the brake controller

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 2:34pm

The Hayes device works by selectively activating one or the other trailer brakes. If one of the brake magnets isn't connected electrically then the Hayes device won't be able to activate it. I'm not sure what the system would do if it only has one brake to activate but it's likely to behave unpredictably. I think I'd deactivate it as well.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: seafans
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 9:30pm

I'm on my second Rpod and both had grease in the brakes and magnets when new. Might only need to be disassembled and cleaned-adjusted.

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 7:45pm

On our return trip with the brakes turned off and 200 miles temp on driver side 104 and other side was 92. I turned the controller to 2 and measured at next stop and driver side was 180 and other was about 90. So I think the passenger side brake is just not working.

Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 9:59pm

Sounds like that's what is happening, but you might want to do the 'skid-pad' test I described just to make sure.

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r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:21pm

Originally posted by offgrid

The Hayes device works by selectively activating one or the other trailer brakes. If one of the brake magnets isn't connected electrically then the Hayes device won't be able to activate it. I'm not sure what the system would do if it only has one brake to activate but it's likely to behave unpredictably. I think I'd deactivate it as well.

That is incorrect. The Hayes Sway-Master activates both brakes. The Tuson device will selectively activate one side or the other. I have the Sway-Master.

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

Posted By: seafans
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:29pm

An easy way to check if the magnets are in working order it to check the continuity with an ohm meter. Both of the magnets should have about he same resistance.

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 7:57am

I need to read up on how the brakes work and dissassembly. Can you check continuity without disassembly? If the issue is a bad connection to the actuator it would seem just fixing the connection would resolve the problem without dissassembly.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 8:38am

Yes you don't need to disassemble.

If you get a multimeter with a Hall effect DC current clamp on you can measure the current to each brake. But don't place the clamp on near the magnets or the reading will be inaccurate.

If you don't have a clamp on then disconnect the crummy insulation displacement connectors to each magnet and measure the voltage there. Then replace with proper butt splices.

You can put your meter on the ohms scale and measure the resistance of each magnet while you have them disconnected. The Lippert brake manual gives you the resistance range.

I found that even though I had voltage to both magnets and both were in the resistance range I was getting lower current through the pass side magnet, enough lower that it never grabbed hard enough to burnish properly. I rewired my brakes in series so they had equal current and turned the gain on the controller all on the way up. Then an agressive burnishing. Problem solved.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 8:48am

Originally posted by StephenH

That is incorrect. The Hayes Sway-Master activates both brakes. The Tuson device will selectively activate one side or the other. I have the Sway-Master.

Yeah that's right, I was confusing the two brands. I still wouldn't use either one without both my trailer brakes working properly though.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: seafans
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 10:28am

Please check the cooler drum for grease contamination. This will solve your problem with the brakes.

Check the lippert trouble shooting page and if one brake is that much difference in temp the magnets and/or shoes are contaminated with grease. This was the issue on both of my new R-pods.

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 11:53am

I will check it if I have to dissassemble.....it is a 2018 that was bought used so not sure is that is the cause but is worth checking.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 1:36pm

Mine were imbalanced like that with new brake assemblies that I installed myself. No grease, just variations between magnets and the fact that the right side brake gets less current than the left one due to the longer wire run. And several folks have reported bad connectors resulting in one brake not operating. It's well worth doing the electrical checks first.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 11:11am

Well that was an easy fix one of the wires on the right side brakes had come loose. I used a butt connector and heat shrink to reconnect. All should be good but I will test it.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 12:18pm

Glad it's fixed Chalk another one up to FR's crummy connectors. If the right side still runs cool when you test it try burnishing. You can temporarily disconnect the left brake and make some stops using the we right brake only.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 12:47pm

Will do Thanks