Boondocking Prep
Printed From: R-pod Owners Forum
Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
Forum Discription: Perplexed/need help with a problem - ask here
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15061
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 8:48pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.64 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Boondocking Prep
Posted By: DaveB1701
Subject: Boondocking Prep
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2021 at 1:57pm
|
I'm purchasing parts over the winter to upgrade to dual 20# propane tanks, with auto-cutover regulator, for my '21 171. I've been to 'Go Powers' site, ran the power estimate thingy, and w/o A/C (duh), or microwave use it recommended the 'Weekender' suite, single 190 watt panel - priced around 1,650 on Am@zon. Figure a AGM 100A battery in, and looking at 2 grand total for parts. I've reached out to my RV sales dealer for install cost, but have not received a reply. I have the techie knowhow to wire everything up but don't want to be responsible for bolting/gluing/fastening the panel to the roof... Any insight? Thanks, Dave ------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Replies:
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2021 at 2:36pm
| 1650 sounds high for the panel to me. I got a 120 watt fold up unit for about $160. It easily folds up and can be stored when not in use. If you are using it only for fan, lights, and TV it seemed to work pretty well for us. |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2021 at 2:50pm
|
The kit includes a 190W roof mount panel, 1500W A/C inverter, auto-cutover switch (for when connected to shore power), a battery charging module, battery monitor panel, solar control panel, 30A fuse assy, and associated wiring, all permanently installed - no setting stuff up, which is what I'm looking for. Does the 171 have enough roof space for flat mount (behind the A/C,) of a 26.5 inch (front-to-rear) panel??? Thx!
------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2021 at 7:32am
|
When installing a solar system everything is a trade off. First off you need to find out the wattage needs you anticipate then size the system for that. The first trade off is if you permanently mount the panel to the roof of the trailer then when at your boondocking site you will want the solar panel in the sun shine which means the trailer has to be parked in the sun the majority of the day, just another outcome. Secondly the pricing of what you are looking at seems a little steep to me, may want to do some more looking around. If you have any specific question you can private message me if you care to, hope this helps. ------------- Jay 179/2019 |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2021 at 11:28am
|
To clear things up, here is the system I'm considering: https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Solar-Panels/Go-Power/34282183.html - Go Power Weekender ISW RV Solar Charging System - 190 Watt Solar Panel - 1,500 Watt Inverter Go Power RV Solar Panels 34282183 (etrailer.com) Curious if the 60 X 26 1/2" panel will fit SOMEWHERE on the roof of my baby 'Pod, either over the galley front to rear, or behind the A/C unit left to right...I'm aware of placement of the camper in relation to the sun for optimal charging. Pod is in storage for the winter @ County Fairground facility, so I have no access until April - but only cost $200.00 for 6 months... Just looking for intel...
------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 8:01am
|
I can't help you with the roof measurements because mine is an older model (179/2019). Maybe you could talk your way into the storage facility with an 8' stepladder?? The size and type of battery bank will be another important link to your system, so look at that carefully. The pricing looks pretty good for the system but there will be additional costs, but still it stands now @ about $.86 per watt which is pretty good. Still it depends on the performance. You will not be able to run any high draw appliances like the AC, Water heater (on electric), microwave, or fridge (on electric). Make sure the manufactures stand behind their products even through e-trailer. Also make sure there are no compatibility issues between the e-trailer system and the type of batteries that you have decided on for use in your battery bank. This should get you started. ------------- Jay 179/2019 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 9:47am
|
$1650 is far far too expensive for a 190 watt module and 1500 watt inverter. You can get modules for around $0.50 per watt, inverters for $0.30, and controllers for $0.20. Homw Depot had a sale on a 400 watt kit for $408 a couple weeks ago for example. I posted a link to it. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Blue Ridge
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 1:10pm
| For what it’s worth I decided to experiment with solar this past summer w/o spending a bunch of money. I bought a 100 watt solar kit from Harbor Freight for around $170 it included every thing needed to charge my OEM battery on my 2020 RP180. I do not run an inverter so the AC and microwave are unusable but everything else works on 12 VDC. I never saw the battery charge below 75% and most mornings the battery was back to full by 10am, one rainy day it took until 1 pm to reach full charge. We boondocked for 3 weeks straight with out any problems. |
Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 1:37pm
|
I think OffGrid is right about the price being high for this kit, and I think a high wattage inverter is mostly useless. I guess if using a hairdryer is that important to you, fine, but everything else can run on 12v. It might be nice to have solar permanently attached to the roof, but you can get most of the same benefit without much extra effort with a much cheaper solar suitcase from Renogy (or other more or less expensive vendors.) Plus, they are easily adjustable to maximize solar collection. As someone else said, everything involves a tradeoff. About a 2200w inverter generator is, in my opinion, a great part of a boon-docking kit. You can use the A/C, a hair dryer, the microwave (not all at the same time), and charge your batteries in cloudy weather or at a tree-covered site. There are cheaper units but Honda and Yamaha are generally top rated and usually the most quiet. Quiet is worth paying extra for, for your own enjoyment as well as goodwill in the campground, if your boon-docking is in places with other people around. TT ------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: Ben Herman
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 4:59pm
|
I also use a 100W Renogy kit (suitcase style) but they also make them for permanent mount. For our purposes - keeping a single 12v deep cycle battery fully charged for lights, waterpump, fridge motor, furnace blower, etc - 100 watts is more than adequate. Here's a link to a 100 w Renogy rooftop kit, for just over $300. They have 200 W kits for not much more. Each 100W panel is roughly 42x20 inches - x2 if you go for 200 watts. I have a 179 so my rooftop measurements wouldn't be of help to you. https://www.renogy.com/solar-kits/?keyword=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=solarkit&gclid=CjwKCAiAqIKNBhAIEiwAu_ZLDseoAB3szsGpXhj8QTpeY-Ek15jDFCIVycci4aCl2jD8Janae6ROYRoCOUEQAvD_BwE?sort=bestselling
|
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 5:41pm
|
I have used a Renogy 100 watt suitcase system for about 4 years. It has been totally satisfactory in terms of construction and function. I can easily recommend the suitcase system and I would buy again if necessary. I have 2 6volt golf cart batteries and the solar panels keep them fully charged on most days and certainly usable every day. I think the portable panels are the best option because of the abilities to park in the shade and also to adjust the panels for max solar input. a simple charge controller is easy to add in the pod or can be attached directly to the panels. I agree that a high wattage inverter is largely an unnecessary expense and not essential. I use a small 400 watt inverter that powers all of our mobile charging devices, camera batteries, laptops, etc. A large inverter delivering large wattage will draw down the batteries much faster than you can recover. I also agree that if you must have high wattage appliances, the only realistic answer is a generator. I have a Honda EU 2200 and it definitely runs the AC with the Microaire soft start. It will also run m/w or hair dryer or other high wattage appliances. Just my experiences and opinions Safe Travels Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9"> 
|
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 8:54am
|
If you generally camp under trees don't do a roof mount solar array. Shading even a small number of cells in a solar module takes it out of service. If you generally camp in the open then fine, but be sure the array is kept clear of dirt and debris.
The lowest cost way to have a 200 plus watt solar array is to buy either a residential solar module (about 39x65 inches, 40 lbs, and 280 ish watts) or an industrial module (about 38x77 inches, 50 lbs and 350 ish watts). These are readily available as project leftovers (try Craigslist) for around 50 cents a watt or less. Do not buy the so called "flexible" modules, glass and aluminum frame modules are much more reliable and long lived. Then, get a 20 amp MPPT charge controller. Look on Amazon and get one thats getting good reviews. Mount that near your batteries. You will also need a couple MC4 connectors and 10 gauge cabling of the length you want to be able to place your solar module in the sun near your camping area, 50 ft is usually good. Add a 30A fuse at the + battery post and use 10 gauge wire between your batteries and the controller. Make a couple folding back legs out if some aluminum angle so you can set the module on the ground (in landscape so it won't tip over) and swing the back legs out to adjust the tilt angle so the module is facing the sun. Just swing the legs back in to stow the module. Re batteries, the most cost effective solution for most folks is two 200-ish amp hour 6V flooded golf cart batteries, case size GC2. The AGM batteries don't provide enough benefit to be worth the additional cost. The very best solution is lithium batteries if you plan on keeping your rpod a long time and/or need more than about 100 amphours capacity (you should not take out more than around 50% capacity of lead acid batteries). But you will need to change out charge control systems (shore power and TV as well as solar) to use those. Re inverters, be realistic about how big an inverter you get. Energy = power x time, or power = energy/time. You can only store around 1.2 kwh of usable energy in a dual lead acid battery system that fits on an rpod. 12V inverters are only around 80% efficient so that is another loss. So if you have a 1500 watt inverter running a 1500 watt AC load you will only get about 35-40 minutes of operation before your batteries need to be recharged, if there was nothing else at all in the trailer using electrical energy. And it will take a whole sunny day to recharge the battery after running that load for 35 minutes. In practice that means leave the hair dryer and electric coffee pot at home when boondocking, forget about running the air conditioner, and don't expect more than some popcorn popping in the micro. Is it worth it to have a big inverter to pop some popcorn? Up to you but most folks bring along a generator to run the micro and the a/c. And dont forget that big inverters are less efficient than small ones running small loads. Personally I don't bother with an inverter at all. Everything I need runs on 12V more efficiently (including a dual voltage TV and USB charge ports) and I kick on the Honda 2K if I want to microwave or run the a/c (not at the same time). ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Dirt Sifter
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 12:32pm
|
FWIW, re cost, a friend of mine just had a package similar to Dave's installed locally by professionals on a SOB. The total bill out the door was just under $2000. And I couldn't believe they put the monitor two and a half feet inside the pass thru where it is hard to see. ------------- Greg n Deb 2020 195 HRE '07 Tundra 5.7L., '17 Tacoma 3.5L. Both with tow packages 1 Puggle, 1 Chihuahua support staff |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 1:57pm
Thanks for the advice & recommendations, folks! I have everything on order to 'up' me Pod to two 20# propane tanks, but have decided to scrap the solar plan. Male Pattern Baldness negates the need for a hairdryer, and I don't drink coffee... I have a dog bone adapter coming for my 4400W Dual Fuel generator, which has 65db noise @ 50% load. For the times I'd need it for A/C, microwave, & battery charging, I figure it would only be used for a few hours per day. Considering trip durations (typically 3 nights), and locations I plan for (US Forest Service sites in MI Upper Peninsula), should be good...if not, I'll learn fast.  Still considering a battery upgrade over stock... ------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 3:50pm
|
The problem with the larger generators is weight, be careful not to hurt your back with that 4.4 kw. The dual battery upgrade will let you wait longer between generator runs, which is important if the parks you will be using have quiet hours. Most do, and even if they don't, running a gen at night while folks are trying to sleep is bad campground etiquette. Be aware of the huge increase in tongue weight from the extra propane tank and battery upgrade, you will be up around 125 to 150 lbs higher with that combination. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2021 at 6:04pm
|
Dave, I just retired a nearly 11 year old battery. It was a group size 24 deep cycle Interstate 12v. Have another one just like it, it will get a birthday cake with 11 candles on it next April. As for a replacement, last month I purchased a Trojan T-1275 (golf car battery) 12v, 150 Ah, and weighs in at 85 lbs. It is a great upgrade as it was needed the extra tongue weight (usually travel with a full FW tank which is behind the axle on the 177). The 11% tongue weight needed on the 177 is 320 lbs. With that on the tongue I can get rid of 3 truck rotors that were taking up valuable storage space in the front stow area - my wife is happy. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 12:10pm
|
Re: offgrid - regarding generator: it weighs 125 lbs., has a wheel/handle kit, & will be in my pickup bed for the duration of camp trips. I have a set of aluminum ramps and 2" X 8" X 10' sticks of lumber eyeballed for the load/unload solution @ home. There is even a slick kit available that is essentially a generator umbrella, keeping the rain off it. I've researched the USFS locations I would visit and they do have hours-of-use restrictions that I'm more than willing to abide by. Champion Generators website has a power requirement estimator that indicated 3000 running watts and 4000 surge for 13,500 BTU A/C and microwave oven usage (I assume simultaneously, which I'll likely never do) - well within range of my 3,500/4,400 gens rating. Those two items, and battery charging would be the gennies only duties...I'm looking at staying with a single battery, 100 to 150Ah, possibly AGM, or maybe a Lithium Iron Phosphate if not ridiculously priced. Re: jato - regarding batteries: Purchased my Pod new in July - I have no idea what's inside the box as far an Ampere Hour rating, std auto or deep cycle, but I assume lead-acid. It's in winter storage at the County Fairgrounds until April (indoor, unheated storage for 6 months for $200.00 TOTAL), and I have no access to it until then. Also, I utilize one of these between shore power & Pod...would also use between gennie & Pod: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093X5KVDW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - Amazon.com: POWSAF rv Surge Protector 30 amp with Waterproof Cover, rv Power Defender Voltage Protector/Monitor with Surge Protection(4100 Joules), Designed with Easy to Use Handles : Automotive Again, thanks guys! DB
------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 6:45pm
|
You might need a bonding plug between the Genny and the circuit analyser. Many generators are ungrounded which will trip the analyser. Cheap and simple to make or buy if you do.find out you need it.
The a/c compressor has a very high startup surge current, requiring something in the range of 4kw momentarily. Most generators over around 3kw will start it fine. Many of us who prefer a smaller lighter generator have installed a device called an Easy start to allow a 2kw to start the a/c. You should be fine with your generator without it though. The benefit of higher battery capacity for you would be less frequent generator starts, making it easier to just run the generator once a day at a convenient time for you and your neighbor campers. Of course, that depends on how much youre using your appliances and other devices. l If you look as the life cycle cost of AGM lead acid batteries vs Li the Li batteries are cheaper now, not counting the changes you need to make in your charging systems. AGMs are not as cost effective for what you get as good old flooded golf cart deep cycle batteries, which is my recommendation if youre not ready to jump into the Li battery world. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 4:42pm
|
I was a mechanic and electronics technician in the USAF for 20 years, but currently (no pun intended) learning a lot on the relationships of systems of this type. I hit up OSHA's site on portable generator hookups and it reads as if I don't need a rod planted into the ground for the generator as long as it and the camper are connected with a 'common' to each other... After looking around, it seems as if the LiFePo battery options are 100Ah or 200Ah, with nothing in between. Weight will be taken into consideration as well as price, and I have 'till mid-April to research, analyze & decide. The sites I plan on recreating in are quite dispersed, with significant forestation between sites, so I figure with that, a 65db rating on the gen, plus a bit of reduction in 'sideways' noise running it in the bed of my truck, and usage only during allowed hours when needed should keep the neighbors from getting grouchy.  On a tangent, I purchased a EasyTouch RV Thermostat to replace the Dometic CT, which was already showing off its p*ss poor design after only three outings from new -- wall panel was flexing while cramming buttons hard enough to make a change in settings.
------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 7:49pm
I think you missed something. Offgrid didn't say anything about a ground rod, he talked about a bonding plug. Very different thing.
Yeah, maybe. 65 db is loud, You probably won't enjoy being around it, even if no one else is. Be sure the generator is strapped in securely, and maybe put it on a rubber pad for both friction and a little more sound control. With respect, you'd probably benefit from asking more questions and taking a little more time to make your choices TT ------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 8:47pm
|
Here is a comparison, I have Honda 2000i eco mode 48 db full throttle 57 db that means your geny is 8 times louder the my Honda ------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: poston
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 9:28pm
Loudness doubles at an increase of 10db, so 48->57db is less than double, about 1.86x. ------------- -- Jim Virginia City, Nevada 2016 R-pod 180 2015 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 11:29pm
|
Sorry my mistake, I didn't have reading glasses on and read 1.0 ------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 5:53am
|
Yeah, OSHA does not require grounding on mobile systems. If you did actually ground it you'd then have to follow the NEC which would require two rods embedded 8 ft rods spaced at least 6 feet apart. Good luck pulling those when you want to break camp.
I'd still suggest you consider getting two 6V golf cart batteries if you can stand the tongue weight. Having the flexibility to go a longer time between generator charge intervals is very helpful and it also allows you to reduce the depth of your battery cycles which I creases battery longevity. As for,Li batteries consider doing that upgrade after you see how things work for you with lead acid batteries first, that way you'll have a better idea what you really need long term. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 6:00am
|
Re: Tars Tarkas About ready to ditch this site based on "I know better than you" comments like this, as opposed to honest insight and suggestions, which MANY have given...
------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: DaveB1701
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 6:04am
|
Re: offgrid Thank you...will add your input to my final analysis and implemetation. DB ------------- 2021 R-Pod 171 2017 Chevy Colorado Z71 V6 Just me & my pooch Mr. Buster... |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 11:44am
|
The purpose of a bonding plug is to connect the receptacle neutral and ground pins together at the generator when it is connected to an electrical system without an earth ground
Many generator manufacturers don't do that internally because there can be only one point of common connection for the system. They don't know whether you are connecting the Genny into an existing grounded system or using it for a mobile application. If there is no connection between neutral and ground the circuit analyser interprets that as an a open ground condition and won't connect. A bonding plug remedies that. It also allows the gfci's in your trailer to function normally. Hope that helps. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 3:54pm
In the RF world, 3db is double (or half depending on which way you're going). 48db -> 57db is almost 10X. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 5:40pm
|
You're both right. The sound pressure level increases 10x with a 10 dbA increase. That is perceived as about a 2x increase in noise level. Put another way our perception of sound level is non linear.
I can say that I perceive my Honda 2k, supposedly one of the quieter gensets out there, as really quite lowd and irritating at or near full load. At low load where it's running at low rpm, it seems pretty quiet. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 8:44pm
I just looked back in the thread and you have asked a few questions, but mostly you just announce what you're doing or going to do. And you come across as kind of a newbie, so I didn't, and still don't know how you plan to keep your generator in place while you're driving down the road. If you're happy with with whatever your plan is, great. And if there's no one within miles I guess it's only your problem how loud the generator is, and if you already have it, that's one thing, but if it's what you're planning on buying, it's more power than you need for everything in your Pod, so it's more weight than you need to fool with. If you're buying a new genny, I'm pretty sure you'd be happier spending money on lower noise than more watts and weight. Also, you didn't seem to know about a bonding plug, which is a bit esoteric Your surge protector may not work with your generator without one. (Arguably, you don't need it with your generator, but it could take a while to figure that out.) TT
------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 1:17pm
|
If you get something useful out of it then maybe stick with it and ignore the rest?
It's not like there is a rule that we all have to agree all the time, wouldn't that be boring.... ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |