LED meltdown
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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3556
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 8:41pm
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Topic: LED meltdown
Posted By: Bill-GA
Subject: LED meltdown
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 9:40pm
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I had purchased a bunch of 6x8 LED panels (less than$30) that came with very small LED's. The supplied two sided tape was used to adhere them in the Rpod fixtures. All looked well. Nice and bright, warm color. We left them ON at the sink/stove fixture unintentionally when we went on an afternoon trip. When I got back, it looked like the panels had become loose and hanging in the fixture . On taking off the lenses, I noticed the LED backing tape had MELTED (it was a soft goo) and the back of the LED's hanging from their wires were TOO HOT TO TOUCH. Has anyone experienced this? Did I get the wrong LED's? Is there a high temp rated 2-sided tape available?   ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Replies:
Posted By: Goose
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 9:52pm
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Bill, I did not know that the LED's got warm or even hot, I always thought that they ran cool. With the wires getting hot makes you wonder if they are undersized for the load. It is something to worry about as it could be a fire hazard, good thing you got back when you did. Goose ------------- Mother Goose's Caboose..2011 RP171..07 Grand Cherokee 
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Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 10:14pm
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Goose, it wasn't the wires that were hot, it was the back of the board. The front of the LED's were not that hot. I wonder if I got some engineering / design rejects? Made in China. Anyone know of a reliable source to get replacements that are market tested and reasonably priced? ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 10:30pm
I hate to say it, but you get what you pay for. I tryed those LED bulbs did'nt like them at all, I wanted a bulb with a wedge base that fit properly in to the socket, I bought these very happy with them, pricey at 14,75$ but than up here in Canada everything costs more than in the US. ------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 1:12am
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I've got similar bulbs to marwayne and I really like them. They're warm white and a fantastic replacement for the stock bulbs. I'm well into the second year with them and they're holding up strong. Mine are 2 watts, so they consume 30% of the power of the stock 7 watt bulbs while providing plenty of light. I ordered a pack of 10 off of eBay (the seller is in China)... I won't mention the price - I'll just say that they were very reasonable. ------------- Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150 |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 8:18am
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As others have said, you get what you pay for. And sometimes you get burned...Literally! I tried some of those cheap Chinese units and found them totally inadequate. Junque. But then, I didn't lose much. I replaced all my lights with LEDs from SuperBrightLeds.com. Yes they are more expensive but they work and are very acceptable as far as brightness and color go. They are slightly whiter than the 921s, particularly as the 921s age and turn black, and I like them. The SuperBrights plug like a bulb with no tape required. They also appear to have regulator circuitry built in so the brightness and power should be somewhat independent of battery voltage. The individual LEDs are 5050 SMDs which seem to be one of the best available. See the ones I bought at: http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/194-led-bulb-18-smd-led-wedge-base-tower/397/ - http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/194-led-bulb-18-smd-led-wedge-base-tower/397/ Happy podding, ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Racer|X|
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 9:39am
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Buy price....buy twice! Thebulbs like Marwayne posted are better and worth it. No needed adapters, tape, etc. Glad nothing bad happened out of it. I had one of the bunk light covers melt from the standard bulbs. Those bulbs were mini-heaters. ------------- |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 1:00pm
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Outbound, I tested the 921 incandescent bulb it drawes 25 watts LED replacement 1.7 watts. C194 markerlight drawes 3 watts LED replacement 0.2 watts. ------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 4:42pm
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Admittedly, I never took a multimeter to the stock bulbs, but they were labelled 7 watts and I have no reason to distrust that. The new LED bulbs that I ordered are definitely 2 watt - there were lower wattage bulbs available, but I decided to go with the higher-wattage bulbs from past experience with LEDs. When I received the new LED bulbs, I checked out the amp draw and lumen output on my bench at home (admittedly, I used the light meter on my cell phone to measure the latter, but it's not bad) ------------- Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150 |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 9:26pm
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Goose, even LEDs produce heat, and unlike in incandescent lights the waste heat is a big LED killer. If you ever buy a LED light for your house (to replace a standard light bulb) you'll see they come with big heat sinks to keep them cool.
------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual 
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Posted By: Anthony Valenzano
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 10:00pm
| LEDs indeed get warm, or aren't putting out much light and if they get hot they will fail very soon. Life of the LED is inversely proportional to running temperature, so a reputable LED manufacture will ensure the proper heat sinking path and Airflow. Really we shouldn't use a LED bulb, but a replacement LED fixture as LEDs need airflow and incandescent fixtures tend to restrict airflow. |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 10:00pm
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Marwayne/Outbound, what's the nomenclature for the round 9 LED you are using? I'm trying to locate it online to measure its output in lumens. Thanks, Bill ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 10:20pm
Techntrek, last month I purchased 3 interior LED flood light bulbs (60/75 watt equivalent) in Costco which replaced 3 indoor incandescent flood lights. I was concerned about heat in an IC recessed fixture. New bulb was totally glass enclosed (cost about $20+ US) and I was VERY impressed that it did NOT run very hot. Dimable too. I don't know if this is new technology or just packaging technology. Have you seen these? ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2013 at 10:55pm
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Technical specs:
------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2013 at 12:52am
Actually, mine have 12 x 5050 SMDs Color: 2850k Voltage: 11-15 V DC Wattage: 2 watts Lumens: 220 ------------- Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150 |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2013 at 3:56pm
I've seen enclosed "bulbs" for the lower wattages but not at that level, interesting. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: Anthony Valenzano
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2013 at 8:18am
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I'm sure it's as simple as it's really a lower power bulb. I've seen those and they are only about 3 watts, which is low enough to dissipate through the bulb base and the bulb glass. As far as I've seen LED bulbs fall into one of three categories: 1.) Low power and low light - never really heat up, will last a long time (25K hours) and inexpensive. 2.) Higher power, lots of light, with aluminium or ceramic to dissipate heat, expensive, but last 50K-100K hours - basically properly engineered. 3.) Lots of light w/ no heat sink, basically a cheap knock off that will burn up fairly soon (soon being 1000 hours usually) I design circuitry for LED fixtures, there's no magic - just these trades. |
Posted By: kymooses
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 9:57am
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@Outbound and @Marwayne Do the ones you all have. I'm just calling them pancake style cause they are flat like that. Do you all feel that they dissipate heat well enough or that they don't get too hot? I've read that they don't do a great job of dissipating heat and so I was looking at the type that is a rounded cylinder type on a ceramic base. ------------- https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=cnBvZC5zcG90dGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ - RPod Rallies https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=1W1foQXGtrjf8aYly1uh0b-bHPfI&hl=en_US - RPod Owner Map |
Posted By: Goose
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 10:36am
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Thanks Doug for the info, I have a couple of LED's in the house and very happy with the output and they do have heat sinks around them. The ones that I just put in have a G10 base in a track light with no heat sinks so with the info that Anthony provided we will see how long that they last.
I am sitting on the fence when it comes to the lights in the POD, I have not decided to go with the "pancake style" like Marwayne and Outbound or the "tower style" that puts light 360 degrees and makes a little better use of the design of the light fixture. Goose ------------- Mother Goose's Caboose..2011 RP171..07 Grand Cherokee
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Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 12:38pm
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Outbound,
Where did you get the 12 SMD lights? What is the catalog number? I would like to get some of those!
Thanks
Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 3:57pm
They do get very warm (not "hot" and nowhere near "burning"). They're certainly cooler than the stock bulbs. Because they sit proud (i.e. not taped to the light fixture), it does allow air to circulate around the bulb. ------------- Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150 |
Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 4:09pm
I almost hesitate to tell you, because this may well devolve into an "eBay?!?!", "cheap crap!!" and "from China?!?!?" flaming, but I did order them off of eBay from a seller in China. Anyway, here's a current listing ( http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10x-T10-194-921-W5W-Bulb-Lamp-12-5050SMD-LED-Warm-White-Y-/181047420669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a274466fd&_uhb=1 - link ). This is the same seller I bought from and the same item. As I said, I've had them for over a year and they've been fantastic - all bulbs still work 100%. At less than $30 for 10 of them, I was willing to try them and lose the money if they didn't work out (my philosophy for buying anything off of eBay); fortunately, they did work quite well. ------------- Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150 |
Posted By: Zag
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 6:24pm
Marwayne, Care to share where a fellow Canadian might find these? Thanks! ------------- 2009 RP-152 (Cutie-Pod) 2001 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 7:13pm
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Hi Zag, email; mailto:harvey@ledlightscanada.com - harvey@ledlightscanada.com web; ledlightscanada.com Note, the wattage on these bulbs is 11 to 15 volts witch to me is very importend, because you dont always get exactly 12 volts, it can vary up or down.
------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 7:21pm
Outbound, The price & color is right ... Hoping the lumens are enough for what I want. I gotta get rid of the 48 LED panels before something happens. Thanks for the link. Bill ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2013 at 9:15pm
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Has anyone tried drilling small vent holes (very carefully) in the light lenses. I'm not sure if it would help ... or even be possible. Do they sell replacement lenses? ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: Anthony Valenzano
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2013 at 6:48am
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That's what they seem to be doing for the LED fixtures - Just drilling a big hole.
http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Stars-F3528001-Fixture-Natural/dp/B00CZCY5SE/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1370429070&sr=8-25&keywords=Led+Rv+Interior+Light+Fixtures%20 - http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Stars-F3528001-Fixture-Natural/dp/B00CZCY5SE/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1370429070&sr=8-25&keywords=Led+Rv+Interior+Light+Fixtures ------------- |
Posted By: kymooses
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2013 at 9:11am
Thanks!! Cooler than stock bulbs is exactly what I wanted to hear! ------------- https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=cnBvZC5zcG90dGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ - RPod Rallies https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=1W1foQXGtrjf8aYly1uh0b-bHPfI&hl=en_US - RPod Owner Map |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2013 at 9:13am
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I think the sticky pads that the OP's were shipped with are just junk. We used the same, and several of the sticky pads looked all curled up and meltish... without that particular light ever being turned on. I went through and switched out to small strips of real 3m trim tape. It holds bumpers on cars at all temps and conditions.. our LED's have been stuck up there just fine since. Also since I just used small strips along the outside edge, they get some air circulation behind/under. I think. ------------- |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2013 at 8:39am
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Here's a 24 LED version http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-T10-194-921-168-Bulb-Lamp-24-1210SMD-LED-Warm-White-/170674549926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-T10-194-921-168-Bulb-Lamp-24-1210SMD-LED-Warm-White-/170674549926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 Of the circular wedge light. Same seller. Still no lumens data. About the same price. More LEDs ... More heat?
------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: Anthony Valenzano
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2013 at 9:11am
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Don't waste your money on that. More LEDs do not equal more light - you can get all the light you need out of one good LED. What is limiting the amount of light is the surface area for dissipating heat. Every LED is about 70-100 lumens per watt. In other words more heat equals more light. If that heat isn't dissipated then more heat equal less life or meltdown. Search for a bulb that looks like it can dissipate heat and pick that one. For my rig I picked this one.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-3-Watt-10W-T3-LED-Landscape-Capsule-Cool-White-4100K-Light-Bulb-407998/202514337#.UbCI_pzD_ng Its 2.5W and 100 lumens which means they aren't lying. It uses the ceramic to dissipate the heat, but still gets warm. I measure the light output and its 20% more or so than the stock incandescent. I did put a bit of aluminum tape behind these to reflect the light down. |
Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2013 at 9:03pm
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Warm white 1210 SMDs put out 6-8 lumens ------------- Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150 |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 11:09pm
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There seems to be FOUR TYPES of LEDS being sold (on EBay). Larger 5050, smaller 1210, small hi-intensity 3528 and then there's what looks like a panel of small glass covered LED's that are just called 'LED's'. Of course there's very little doc about lumens, watts, heat, etc Here a link which offers 'type' selection... http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-12-15-20-24-36-48-LED-5050-3528-SMD-Car-Light-Panel-T10-Festoon-BA9S-Adapter-/400492854370?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item5d3f3bfc62%20%20 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-12-15-20-24-36-48-LED-5050-3528-SMD-Car-Light-Panel-T10-Festoon-BA9S-Adapter-/400492854370?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item5d3f3bfc62 I am NOT recommending this seller, just using it as an example. My 48 LED panel has the type 3528 (I think) which is VERY hot ... Thus my meltdown. Is there an LED place to go to make sense of this all? I know folks have express likes for various products ... but I'm looking for info on LED's.
------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |
Posted By: Bill-GA
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 10:04am
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I found this page with lots of raw LED info. http://www.theledlight.com/technical1.html - http://www.theledlight.com/technical1.html Interestingly at the bottom of this link, under heat dissipation, it says when an LED is installed and the temperature is expected to exceed 60C, then a forced air circulation method must be provided. Also, DO NOT LOOK closely at high intensity LED's as they could damage eye sight. I may purchase ONE glass LED Panel just to see what it's characteristics are - out of curiosity. Bottom line - when you buy stuff from China with no docs, your on your own (as has been said many times here). ------------- Bill & Bev 13 yr old dachshund 'Elsa' 2010 RP-176T (tent & slide-out) 2011 Toyota Tundra 2WD TV |