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GENERATOR

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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5332
Printed Date: 05 May 2024 at 10:42pm
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Topic: GENERATOR
Posted By: hogone
Subject: GENERATOR
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 6:56am
another generator question.  what would be the smallest gen needed strictly to charge the batterys when dry camping and maybe plug in pod for occasional use of outlets (small electrical heater, charging cell phones, computer, other small plug-ins, etc).  hogone

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD



Replies:
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 8:24am
Two different answers.  If you just want to top off the battery and charge a laptop and phone, a 1000 watt generator will work.  That size really only has 2 options - an incredibly cheap but incredibly loud 2-stroke engine or one of the quiet but expensive Honda or Yamaha inverter-generator options.
 
An electric heater may not work with a 1000 genset, even on its low setting (definitely not on its high setting), since they have a startup surge and the converter will use some of the available power.  It is possible if you plugged the heater in directly via an extension cord with nothing else plugged in to the genset it might work, but your only safe option is to move up to a 2000 watt generator.  Again cheap + noisy or quiet + expensive options are available.


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 10:19am
Speaking for myself, of course, I would be inclined to go solar in this situation to charge the battery and use propane for heat. Solar is cheap and easy. You don't necessarily have to have the expensive ZAMP setup to accomplish this. Any good 100 watt panel with a charge controller can be connected directly to the battery. The Renology Solar company is one of several that offer affordable panels and chargers.    


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 10:40am
One downside of the propane heater is the noise.  I can remember one weekend of chilly fall weather, and I was camped where I could run the genset all night.  I chose to run the genset to run an electric heater rather than use the propane heater.  That said, there are silent catalytic propane heaters that don't use any electric, used often by boondockers. Olympian Wave is one.
Solar would often be an option in TX, but not where tree cover is the norm.  I'd love to use it with my camper but trees are usually in the equation where we camp, which is true for many others, too.  Hope to get solar installed at my house some day...


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 11:47am
Some panels generate in the shade or in any light, but I'm not sure it would be enough without a demand study. What if the panel was portable and could be placed? Would it still be impossible to get direct rays? Even with a 50' feed line? 


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 2:14pm
PV drops to 50% output with just a corner shaded.  It doesn't take much more shading to drop the output to near zero.
 
You can make the panels portable, but that introduces new challenges. 
Security - you need to babysit them as long as they are sitting out or they will walk. 
Wiring - at the voltage levels used by PV (around 18 volts in parallel, maybe 2-3 times that if in series and using MPPT) to feed a 12 volt system you need some seriously thick wires from the panels to go more than 10 feet away from the battery.  Forget extending out beyond 50, so while the pod can be in shade it would have to be right on the edge of full sun anyway. 
Weight - going with more panels or fewer large panels to get into the 100-200 watt range starts to get heavy, lugging them out, setting them up, putting them back.  If you have large gauge wire that gets heavy, too. 
Fiddle factor - similar to the weight problem, you are introducing that extra setup/teardown into your routine, and maybe even moving them several times a day to chase the one patch of sunlight you can reach.


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 3:24pm
Hmm, all very good points. I wonder how long, at idle, it would take the TV to charge the battery. Most people camp with bikes, perhaps a pedal driven high output charging generator?


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 3:43pm
Forget the human-powered generator.  If you've ever gone to a science center and tried one of their exhibits where you pedal or hand-crank to produce eletricity (for anything other than a radio or flashlight), you'll discover quickly that you won't get many electrons even with a lot of work.  It would be a useful way to harness some energy if your primary purpose was a good workoutDisapprove
 
Using the TV with a good set of jumper cables (not the Bargman connection) is useful in a pinch.  Run it for 30-60 minutes every other day - not every day.  You get more electrons for every gallon of gas burned that way.


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 8:28pm
rog on the cables; any certain ones?   jumpers?  and to clarify, how to hook up?  hogone

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 10:05pm
I believe it is very plausible to charge a battery using human power given the right setup. It's all about consumption. Take out the heater and the consumption is very low. Heck, he might be able to get by for days just on a fully charged battery alone.


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 10:13pm
A heavy duty set of jumper cables is best, which is good to have in the TV anyway.  Hook up like you would jump two vehicles + to +, - to -.

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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2014 at 10:20pm
Why cables, why not just connect the tow wire harness to charge the battery?


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 6:37am
clear on the cables tech.  i have dual batterys, should i hook up to just one, or pos to one and neg to the other.  maybe it doesn't matter.  hopefully not another stupid hogone question, just want to be sure. 

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: 2McPods
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 6:50am
Hello, question on generator? We normal camp at electric sites and would like to venture out to non electric. What size generator would we need to run the pods 13,500 btu A/C ?
Thanks,
Viki


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Everything Happens 4 A Reason

Pat & Viki McCartney
2015 171 {2McPods}
2014 F150
Pittsburgh, Pa


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 7:01am
i think most would say 2400

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 8:26am
2400 min.  A 3000 might be better.  I recently had a problem starting my air con with a 2400.  I think that will easily be resolved with a hard start capacitor for under $20.  Or you can go with 2 2000w generators and hook them together for 4000w when necessary.  I don't see the attraction in hauling 2 generators around though, unless you have plenty of space. I guess lifting 2 x 2k generators one at a time is easier than lifting one 3k or 4k generator. 

If you are going to be camping around other people you should strongly consider a Yamaha or a Honda.  Those are much quieter, but also more expensive. 

TT


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2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 8:28am
Podster - voltage drop.  The thick jumper cables will allow for a much larger/faster charge than the little wires in the Bargman. 
 
hogone - with 2 batteries in series or parallel, connect the jumper cables to the + on one and the - on the other.  This is absolutely required if you have two 6 volt batteries in series unless you want to see just how big of an explosion a lead acid battery can make (trust me, it is a big explosion and you don't want to be there).  For two 12 volt batteries it is good practice so both batteries get an equal charge.
 
There are no stupid questions around here!  Wink


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 8:34am
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas

2400 min.  A 3000 might be better.  I recently had a problem starting my air con with a 2400.  I think that will easily be resolved with a hard start capacitor for under $20.  Or you can go with 2 2000w generators and hook them together for 4000w when necessary.  I don't see the attraction in hauling 2 generators around though, unless you have plenty of space. I guess lifting 2 x 2k generators one at a time is easier than lifting one 3k or 4k generator. 

If you are going to be camping around other people you should strongly consider a Yamaha or a Honda.  Those are much quieter, but also more expensive. 

TT
 
+ 1 on all of this.  While it is impossible to lift my Honda 3000 watt genset by myself... neither can a thief.  I do miss the ability to lift the Yamaha 2400 watt genset that I had before, but I worried more about it walking away.


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 8:47am
thanks, I have (2) 12 volt batteries, so will hook up pos to one battery and neg to the other battery.  not sure if it will be necessary, but good to know if needed.

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 9:33am
If you do speed charge them don't forget they may be gassing hydrogen so be careful with sparks and other ignition sources.  You may want to connect/disconnect at the TV. 


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 10:06am
what is "charge speed"?

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 10:19am
oops sorry about that, I put one extra charge in there, it should read "speed charge" in other words, quick charge, the opposite of slow or trickle charge. 


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 10:48am
so speed charge would include hooking up to your tv, correct?

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 11:10am
Yes, In my opinion, that would be considered "quick charging" 


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by hogone



thanks, I have (2) 12 volt batteries, so will hook up pos to one battery and neg to the other battery.  not sure if it will be necessary, but good to know if needed.


Just to be absolutely sure, with 12 volt batteries, you want to connect them in parallel. This means connecting the positive terminal of one battery to the positive terminal of the other battery. The same goes for the negative terminals.

If you connected the positive terminal of one battery to the negative terminal of the other, that would be a series connection and would create a 24 volt battery. That will create all kinds of problems and probably fry something (and not in a good way ).

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"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 1:06pm
Correct, but with parallel batteries you always want to hook up the load or the charging source via the + of one battery and the - of the other.  This allows for equal charge/discharge between the two batteries.  If you only hook up to one battery, the resistance of the wires that create the parallel connection ensure the other battery will be discharged less and then charged less.
 
This is the primary argument for using two 6 volt batteries in series, since it removes that problem from the equation.
 


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 6:28am
last question.  lets just say the batteries are discharged over 50%; how long would you think charging from the tv would take?  hogone

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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 6:41am
That can't be answered without knowing the capacity of your battery.
But- for a 105 amp hour battery, since most tow vehicles can't deliver over about 10 amps, then from 50% you are looking at about 6+ hours.
If it is the smaller 80 amp hour battery you are looking at about 5 hours.

 I have two paralleled 105 amp hour batteries and my tow vehicle with large wiring I installed puts about 13 amps into the batteries at idle- so in my case 50% down would take a whopping 9+ hours!

Which Is why I don't charge that way unless I'm going to be driving a lot-   on generator with the built in convertor it is putting around 35 amps into the batteries.  The call it a 50 amp charger but I've never seen it actually put out that much.

Don't forget charging requires you to put back more than taken out due to losses in the process.


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2014 179
Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel
Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle!


Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 6:53am
Originally posted by techntrek

  there are silent catalytic propane heaters that don't use any electric, used often by boondockers. Olympian Wave is one.



One caveat of catalytic heaters, the typical unvented ones put a lot of moisture into the RV, something many already struggle with even with a vented heater.

I have a couple that are at least 30+ years old, one propane and one that even runs on Coleman Fuel...that thing was scary!  Had to light it outdoors as it put out foot high flames until it warmed up and started to glow.


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2014 179
Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel
Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle!


Posted By: mtbmitch
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 11:58am
We only dry camp. 3 days on a fully charged group 31 battery will work fine using the heater, water heater
water pump and led lights just fine. Ya we use the heater in the summer time here in Idaho. Have only camped for 3 days at a time but suspect the battery would go 5 days. I will be hooking up a solar panel that has self adhesive tape and will go on top of the pod this winter.  Kind of like fuel in the tank, nice to keep the battery charged up as much as possible. This helps the life span also. Another year or 2 and the lithium batteries for RV's will be a decent price point. Considering the leading edge technology lithium batteries have a longer life span over a SLA battery, the cost is nearly the same per cycle now. Though the up front cost is
steep. 



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enjoy the fresh air


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 2:55pm
I hope lithium hits the right price point soon, but "next year" has been true for several years now.

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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: mtbmitch
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 5:02pm
You could put a post up for a ground buy. If we buy on alibaba and cut out the middleman, I estimated a price under 500$ for a ground 31. 

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enjoy the fresh air



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