I'm not an Electrician..but...pros and cons
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Topic: I'm not an Electrician..but...pros and cons
Posted By: Podster
Subject: I'm not an Electrician..but...pros and cons
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 11:21pm
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Like many others, I would like to install a 30amp RV service plug here at the house so I can have the benefit of blowing the A/C while I am modding here in South Texas during the 100+ summer. The question: What is the, if any, preference for the tap point on the house: 1) the feeder at the "utility in" located outside using a double pole breaker(because it full), or 2) tapping at the service panel inside the garage? I'm just wondering what the normal go to is in this situation, if there is one. And as always, I really do appreciate folks taking time to respond. ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Replies:
Posted By: JStrube
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 12:20am
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Can you post pics of the 2 locations in question and distances from the pod plug? I'd say closest to the pod is best, but you need space for the breaker. Do you have a load center at the utility feed? Are you talking a sub panel in the garage? Fed from a breaker? ------------- 2012 181G |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 6:55am
Sure, I can post some pictures this weekend. The "utility in" is on the side of the garage near the front, close to the driveway. The house breaker panel is on the back wall of the garage, so with the POD parked in the driveway, the run should be no more then 30', either way. There is no open space at the "utility feed" however, I think a double pole 30amp thin breaker could be used to replace one of the existing full size breakers, so I can tap in for the POD. I have additional space available in the garage "House Panel" but I'll have to check with a pro on how to setup 30 amp service at that point. I have done a fair share of electrical wiring, but have never messed with anything a the panel level. I do have a load center at the utility feed and a distribution panel in the garage. At this juncture, I'm trying to figure out if it would be best to tap at the "utility in" or at the house panel inside the garage. Not sure there is and advantage with one, over the other.
------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 9:46am
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It sounds like the distances are about equal and relatively short so either point should work. Adding a dual breaker to your "utility in" box should work if you can find one with one 30A side and the other side equal to the existing one you will be replacing. If you're replacing a single 30A with a dual 30A you're good to go. Just make sure you can shut off that panel while working on it. The house panel in the garage might work providing it has sufficient service to it. You don't say what is already in it. Does it support 240V for water heater or dryer or A/C? If so it will probably have at least 30A available. You don't need 240V for the Pod, but 30A capacity in house installations usually comes with 240V panels. If only for garage outlets it might not. If the panel will support 30A you simply add a single 30A breaker and hook it up. Either way you should wire with #10 AWG two conductor plus ground (10 W/G) and use type UF if it will be exposed to sunlight or buried. Use a good outdoor rated box and RV type socket. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 10:03am
Very good question, I think this is what it comes down to right here. Thank you very much for the clarity. I will start to investigate what exactly is available at the garage panel vs the feed outside. It very well could be that the 240v (30amp) service originates outside leaving only 15 amp circuits for distribution in the garage. Understanding how utility ins and sub panels are set up is new territory for me, I appreciate your input. ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 11:00am
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Clif, If it were me I'd be looking at the garage panel as a first choice. It's unlikely the only 15A service is wired to that panel. You'll have to determine how that panel is fed from the main entry panel. It's probably fed through a lower powered dual 240V breaker somewhere. Even of the garage panel is populated with only 15A breakers that subpanel has to support current in several of them simultaneously. It won't support all the 15A breakers fully loaded, but it will handle more than one. If the main feed to that subpanel is 40+ amps or so you can just add a 30A line for the Pod. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 2:56pm
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First, you may not need the 30 amp outlet. If you are plugging in close-by to a 15 amp outlet you can run the A/C, just don't run any of the other "big" appliances at the same time. Mine used about 1000 watts which is well within the limits of a 15 amp circuit. If you still want the 30 amp outlet, inside the garage by the panel is the easiest and cheapest since it is close and you don't need a weather-proof box. A standard single-gang box and $10 30 amp outlet, a few feet of 10 amp wire and you are set. Yes a double 30-amp breaker will work there, just be sure you are only tapping ONE of those legs for the pod! I did this same thing at my house. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual 
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Posted By: Seanl
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 3:10pm
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Your garage sub panel is probobly a 220 volt panel you can tell at the pannel if you look at the wire coming in from your main panel if you see 4 wires (Red Black White and plain copper) it is 220. It should be connected to a double pole breaker in your main house panel so if you can find this breaker in youir main house pannel you can find out how many amps you have at the sub pannel in the garage. ------------- Sean, 2011 Rpod RP-173,2009 Jeep Liberty Rocky Mountain Edition 
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Posted By: Buxmont
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 4:05pm
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The easiest would be right at the panel, the pod is only a 120v appliance. There are no 240v circuits in this coach! They make a 30 amp single pole breaker for most manufactures, so you you only need one open space. If there is no room, purchase a breaker that fits two single pole circuits in one space and add your Pod circuit in the space you created. Also make sure you know the difference between your taps, Hot vs Neutral, especially when wiring your outlet and/or if your making up a shorter/longer cord.
------------- 2015 178 Rpod 2003 Chevy Trailblazer |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2014 at 10:18pm
The pics... Outside...All 220v appliance feeds. There one 70amp breaker marked (main/sub panel)  Inside (sub-panel in the Garage) 120v feeds, light, plugs, etc...  Question: How do I identify the correct breaker, I looked at everything within the panel and on the breakers and it's not clear to me what type I need. Am I stuck with pulling one out and taking it to the parts house to match it up? Thanks, ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2014 at 10:28pm
I'm not sure I can get a true 30 amp service at the garage panel, however, you bring up a good point...I probably don't need it. It appears the choice is a) replace an existing outside breaker with a double thin 30 amp breaker and tap one side, install and wire an outdoor box, or b) install a standard 15 or 20 amp breaker in one of the available spots and wire the outlet. I think the true 30 amp service is overkill so I'm leaning towards the garage (sub panel) tap. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand this panel stuff. ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: Buxmont
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2014 at 10:42pm
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That panel will fit ITE, Siemens, or Murry compatible breakers. It looks like you still have open spaces available, just remember you only need a 30 amp SINGLE pole breaker, and since that second picture is a sub panel, make sure you keep the ground and the neutral on their appropriate bus.
I personally don't think 30 amp is overkill. Especially when trying to run the AC through a small gauge extension cord, I've seen it happen to many times where they melt from the inside out. There's a reason Forest River supplies you with a number 10awg umbilical cord! ------------- 2015 178 Rpod 2003 Chevy Trailblazer |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 4:58am
So pulling 30 amps from the sub-panel is no-problem as along as I have the proper breaker, wire, and receptacle to support it? What issues, if any, are created by pulling the full load at the sub-panel? It's counter-intuitive for me to place a 30 amp breaker in a panel filled with 15 amp (there is 1 20 amp) breakers. My ignorance suggests I should not exceed whats already there. I appreciate your response, thanks! ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: Buxmont
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 6:45am
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You actually base breaker size in a panel on whats available from your feeder breaker. Its a mathematical equation based on the load calculations that are being used by each circuits. So just because you have all 15 amp breakers doesn't mean you can't install a 30 amp. All of those 15 amp beakers might be feeding outlets that you have nothing plugged into so you have no load on those circuits, or you might have 1500 watt space heaters plugged into all of them and have no available amps (being facetious) . I'll be honest, whats has me concerned (especially the last question you asked and your own admittance of ignorance) is the knowledge base your working from. Please be careful and make sure you keep all of your polarities correct if you attempt this installation.
------------- 2015 178 Rpod 2003 Chevy Trailblazer |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 7:16am
No worries, as the evidence shows here, I will certainly conduct the due diligence required to prevent a catastrophe. I have never done, thought off, or considered work at the panel. I will certainly consult with an electrician friend before final execution. Thanks again! ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 9:34am
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We're glad you recognize the danger and are proceeding with caution. From your posts and pictures you have a 70 Amp 240 volt feed to the sub panel through that 70A breaker outside. The easiest would be an added 30A single breaker in the garage. If your run is 30-50 feet start with a piece of 2 conductor 10AWG plus ground (3 total). Use 10-2W/G type NM if it will be exposed to sunlight or buried. In the garage box note that all the white wires go to one bus: connect the new white there. All the bare ground wires go to another bus: connect the new bare wire there. The new black wire goes to the new breaker. For the 30 Amp RV connector refer to this article: http://www.myrv.us/electric/ - http://www.myrv.us/electric/ . Follow the guidance for 30 Amp RV service and use an approved outdoor box. With a little help from your friend you'll be fine. If you don't already have one get an inexpensive 3 light outlet tester and test the final installation. You should have one of these testers anyway for campgrounds. Good luck. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 9:47am
Yes Sir, I think we are getting right down to it right here...thanks Charlie, I really appreciate your feedback. ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 10:22am
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I think an outdoor rated box is overkill in a protected garage. 15 & 20 amp outlets aren't required to be in a weatherproof enclosure in a garage, only that they are GFCI protected (not required for a 30 amp outlet). Just make sure it is mounted at least as high off the floor as the existing outlets to meet local code. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 10:35am
Yes Sir, I think Charlie was covering all the bases and working from the premise that I may run X number of feet from the panel to an outside location. So, the right breaker at the panel with some 10/2 plus a ground wire, a box and a 30 amp RV receptacle in the wall just a few feet from the panel should cover it. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it. ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 7:16am
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Found a pretty good video on how to install an RV receptacle at home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F3osluGL9E - How to Wire an RV Receptacle ------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 8:48am
Excellent video. Sorta makes us superfluous  TECHNTREK: Maybe this should be linked in the instruction book section. It's common problem for Podders and this is an excellent treatise. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Podster
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 9:30am
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"...Sorta makes us superfluous " Na, the original discussion was aimed at the pros and cons of tapping at the feeder outside vs the panel in the garage and I appreciate everybody taking the time to comment.
------------- Cliff & Raelynn Ranger 4.0/178 (1/2 ton 5,800lb tow capacity) |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 9:26pm
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Charlie - gotcha. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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