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ouR escaPOD mods

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geewizard View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by StephenH

I saw the spiral wound loom and did not like it.


I didn't either and that's why I chose to twist my cables together.  They roll up and fit within the back frame of the solar panel quite nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 6:37pm
There is also a wire sleeve like this. You would have to slip it on before you attached the connectors. The advantage is that it would tightly contain the entire wire run without anything to catch.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 6:51pm
I still think just getting a 10 awg extension cord and reterminating it is probably the easiest and least expensive solution. You could even take the internal ground in the cord and tie it in parallel with the negative (white) conductor and reduce the voltage drop further. You'd  end up with about a half volt drop at 50 feet with a 100 watt solar module at full sun, which should be fine. No sense in wasting copper Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

There is also a wire sleeve like this. You would have to slip it on before you attached the connectors. The advantage is that it would tightly contain the entire wire run without anything to catch.
That one looks like it is best suited for indoors where it has no possibility of being dragged through the mud.
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ouR escaPOD mods
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by offgrid

I still think just getting a 10 awg extension cord and reterminating it is probably the easiest and least expensive solution. You could even take the internal ground in the cord and tie it in parallel with the negative (white) conductor and reduce the voltage drop further. You'd  end up with about a half volt drop at 50 feet with a 100 watt solar module at full sun, which should be fine. No sense in wasting copper Tongue
That is probably what I will end up doing as soon as I can find one at a reasonable price. I like the idea of tying the internal ground to the neutral. I am all in favor of cutting resistance if possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:49pm
Amazon has a 50 ft Camco 10/3 cord for $57, that's about as cheap as I've seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Amazon has a 50 ft Camco 10/3 cord for $57, that's about as cheap as I've seen.
Okay. If (according to the charts in the manuals for the panel and controller) the panels are capable of Short Circuit Current (isc) of 6.10A; Maximum Power Current (imp) of 5.68A, why would I need a wire capable of carrying 30A? AWG 12 is capable of 20A and even AWG 14 is capable of 15A which is way higher than the best output of the panels, over 3.25x for AWG12 and about 2.5x for AWG 14. Given the much higher capability of even AWG 12, would that not be sufficient for the purpose without too much loss?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 6:10am
There are two criteria you have to look at when sizing conductors. First is ampacity, which deals with safety, the second is line resistance losses, which deals with efficiency. For 120Vac household circuits you rarely have to worry about line losses, but at 12v it’s a major issue.

So, starting with ampacity, the NEC requirement for solar is to multiply module Isc by 1.56 and select a wire and fuse combination with an ampacity higher than that. Why 1.56? 25% for current enhancement from edge of cloud effects and another 25% to avoid nuisance fuse blows. 1.25x1.25=1.56. Is that conservative? For sure, but being conservative is how the Code keeps us safe. So for ampacity purposes with your module, 6.1x1.56=9.5A so you can use a 10A fuse and a 14 gauge cable. In theory you could even use 16 gauge but the code doesn’t allow for field wiring with conductors smaller than 14.

On to voltage drop. General rule of thumb is to keep voltage drop from line resistance to less than 5% or in our case 0.6V. at 12V. You can use one of many free online calculators to find your voltage drop.

In this case you can use your Imp of 5.7A as that is normal operating current. At 50 feet you get 0.57V loss with 10AWG. For 12AWG it’s 0.91V which is getting pretty high considering that there are additional voltage losses in the connectors, fuse and fuse block, etc. Nothing stops you from doing it though, it will work and be safe, it’s just not considered best practice. If you parallel the ground conductor with the neutral the loss with 12 would be 3/4 of 0.91=.68V which you might just call good enough in the interest of keeping cost and weight down.

Back on the fuse, since 10AWG is good for 30A you can use a fuse rated higher than 10A, the upper limit is probably 15A as that is typically the fuse rating of most solar modules.

Hope this long explanation makes sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 8:13am
Thank you. The alligator clips are fused with a 10A fuse from Renogy. Given that it looks like a smaller gauge wire is used for that harness, I expect that it is appropriate. Thanks for the details. I understand where 10AWG is best now. I definitely would not use 14AWG or 16AWG, both of which I have seen listed for sale. I might opt for 12AWG as I could get a 50' length of two conductor 12AWG wire from one source, but in reality, it would not be at any savings over the 10AWG pre-made extension cord. I'm going to punt this down the road for now since I did get the 25' extension wires. I'm not sure I will need more for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 9:53am
If you can find an inexpensive source for two conductor SO cord that would be ideal, fine stranding so very flexible with nice thick insulation. But an extension cord is generally going to be cheaper.
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