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Topic ClosedAxle reinforcement
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Axle reinforcement
    Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 4:54pm
+1
Mike Carter
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 4:37pm
Yes, good point. In a more benign environment the weep holes would probably work.

But if I put weep holes in I'm likely to just get salt water flooding up in there and not be able to wash it out.  The more I think about it for me the best bet would probably be to rust treat and paint the surfaces, bolt it up again, and then wash it out, let it dry, and coat everything with Fluid Film a couple of times a year as a water displacement material. I already do that with all the other exposed metal in my vehicles anyway. 
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2587 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 4:28pm
If a fully filled in watertight space is desired, then how about using something like 3M 5200 bedding compound.  Aside from the cost, it may be the best choice.  It cures in settings that are not exposed to the air so it may adequately harden in the interior yet still remain reasonably flexible to allow some movement without cracking or letting in moisture.

Seems to me another approach would be to paint the axle and the angle iron really well, then provide for some means, like a small tube with holes extending down the inside of the angle to allow water to be sprayed inside from time to time to flush out any accumulated salts.  It seems like it'd be a losing battle to try to seal it.  And the frame of the Pod is just as exposed to the rust, so flushing off the whole bottom and keeping it well painted may yield better rust protection over the long run.
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Posts: 2630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Not sure I'd try to fill the whole void with silicone, it requires exposure to moisture in the air to cure so the interior area might never cure properly. Same with most polyurethane sealants. Maybe some type of 2 part urethane. I was thinking about just running a bead around the edges of the angle. 
I wouldn't do that without some weep holes. No matter how well you seal it around the edges, moisture will still get in there. If not just condensation from temperature changes.
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 4:07pm
Not sure I'd try to fill the whole void with silicone, it requires exposure to moisture in the air to cure so the interior area might never cure properly. Same with most polyurethane sealants. Maybe some type of 2 part urethane. I was thinking about just running a bead around the edges of the angle. 
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 3:36pm
I'm looking forward to reading more and, when I get the opportunity, doing this mod myself. It certainly is less expensive than replacing an axle.

What would you think about cleaning both the angle and the axle and then using silicone RTV sealant in the angle so that it is compressed and fills the space between the angle and axle? It would likely take a couple of tubes of sealant to do so. It would also probably be best to paint the angle first and let that cure before doing this as RTV is usually not paintable.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 2:40pm
The modulus of elasticity (which defines deflection in materials) is pretty much the same for all steels. Meaning that for a given structural shape and loading the deflection will be about the same regardless of that kind of steel it is. 

What changes is the yield strength (which defines at what stress level it will deform and fail to return to its original shape). The angle is regular A36 structural steel which has a minimum yield strength of 36ksi. Some high strength steels are much higher so can they can deflect more before failure. But they're also more expensive and harder to fabricate and weld to. Generally they are used where a lot of deflection is needed (like in springs). 

I believe that the torsion axle tube is probably the same A36 material or very similar. Why? Because the torsion axle is designed to flex the rubber cords not the axle tube.   If the axle tube was designed to flex more there would be issues with the tube to frame attachment and bracket welds, as well as unwanted changes in camber when the the trailer loads change. 

I did the deflection and yield calcs on the axle tube and its a pretty stiff shape, like most tubes are,  its deflection is quite small, as you would want and expect. On the yield side if I assume its A36 then its a little marginal for an over the road vehicle when the axle is fully loaded, also about what we'd expect based on the history of failures. When I did the calcs (roughly, its pretty complicated) for the combined angle and axle tube, still assuming A36, the loading at yield increased by about 50%, well above anything we might expect over the road, so I don't think there's not any reason to think that adding the angle is going to increase failures.  

 
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Posts: 196 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 12:54pm
Here are a couple of thoughts/questions: 

Do you know what type of steel the Diamond tube is and what kind of annealing they do to it? It should be a type of "spring steel" which seems likely since it is designed to flex, then return to it's original shape. The 3x3 angle is not likely to be spring steel at all and could be just plain old "soft steel". So if and when it bends, it's going to stay in it's new shape. I think there might be a possibility that the two will counter act each other and it might be in a negative way. 
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2019 at 7:29am
crw8sr, I didn't take any photos of the angle before installing it, sorry.  But the curvature created by cambering the piece is only 3/8 of an inch so you can't really see it unless you sight down the angle. Otherwise than that its just a piece of 3x3 steel angle. 

Here is a discussion of camber on trailer axles. 


The Lippert axles come with some positive camber (that's why the center is about 3/8 inch higher than the ends so when they get loaded the camber angle doesn't become too negative. With the larger than normal axle end overhang on the rpods the forces on the axle trying to flatten it out are significantly more than if the mounting points were closer to the ends of the axles. Apparently these axles can often "lose their camber" over time and end up not springing back to their arched shape after sustaining heavy loads. 

I think the rust reformer is a good option. I need to go over my entire frame, especially the A frame and clean up the rust, so I'll probably  remove everything I can, brush and grind it, spray it and then reassemble. I think I'll also seal the edges of the angle to the axle at that time.

Another product I use here in the OBX is Fluid Film. Good stuff made from lanolin so nontoxic and won't ruin your clothes. You do have to apply it a couple of times a year because it is water soluble. I use my compressor and spray the bottoms of all my vehicles with it. 
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 7:45pm
Rustoleum makes Rust Reformer in a spray can. It works similarly in that it will convert light rust to a stable, paintable surface. Loose rust must be removed but light surface rust is okay.
StephenH
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ouR escaPOD mods
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