Proper carrying of propane tanks

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   This subject came up in my mods. I installed a LiFePO4 battery inside which freed up the battery rack. I thought I might carry an extra tank there but found that there is insufficient vertical room for the tank. I remarked as such and Offgrid affirmed my conclusion. 

Geewizard asked, "Why isn't it ok to carry a propane tank on it's side?" and remarked, "I have a 
horizontal 30 lb propane tank in my truck camper.  It has the same valve
 as any other propane tank."

My comment was, "If you look at both a standard tank that is meant to be carried upright 
and one that is meant to be carried horizontally, you will see that 
there is a difference in valve placement. For the propane tank to work 
properly, the valve must be above the liquid level so that vapor is 
drawn off to go through the system. A standard tank would have the valve
 below the liquid level when the tank is full. A horizontal tank has the
 valve offset so that when it is installed, the valve is above the 
liquid level. That is my understanding of why it is not okay to 
transport a standard 20lb cylinder on its side."

I think this is important enough to need its own topic. I also think this is something that should be part of a FAQ on safe transportation and use of propane.

I have looked at different LP tanks on Amazon, and see that some that look like converted vertical cylinders have the valve offset so that the valve would be above the liquid level when the tank is mounted horizontally. These appear to be suitable for use either vertically or horizontally. They need to be filled while in the vertical position.

True horizontal tanks are meant to be mounted in the horizontal position and not moved for filling. These may have the vapor valve at the same or a lower level than the fill valve, but there must be some sort of internal tube in a case like this so that only vapor will be drawn off and not liquid when these are properly filled and used. As I do not have one to cut apart and see how it is made internally, I must speculate, but think this is likely a good reflection of the actual construction. However, if someone has better information, please add it so this will be an accurate and more useful discussion.

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StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288	Topic: Proper carrying of propane tanks Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 1:47pm
	This subject came up in my mods. I installed a LiFePO4 battery inside which freed up the battery rack. I thought I might carry an extra tank there but found that there is insufficient vertical room for the tank. I remarked as such and Offgrid affirmed my conclusion. Geewizard asked, "Why isn't it ok to carry a propane tank on it's side?" and remarked, "I have a horizontal 30 lb propane tank in my truck camper. It has the same valve as any other propane tank." My comment was, "If you look at both a standard tank that is meant to be carried upright and one that is meant to be carried horizontally, you will see that there is a difference in valve placement. For the propane tank to work properly, the valve must be above the liquid level so that vapor is drawn off to go through the system. A standard tank would have the valve below the liquid level when the tank is full. A horizontal tank has the valve offset so that when it is installed, the valve is above the liquid level. That is my understanding of why it is not okay to transport a standard 20lb cylinder on its side." I think this is important enough to need its own topic. I also think this is something that should be part of a FAQ on safe transportation and use of propane. I have looked at different LP tanks on Amazon, and see that some that look like converted vertical cylinders have the valve offset so that the valve would be above the liquid level when the tank is mounted horizontally. These appear to be suitable for use either vertically or horizontally. They need to be filled while in the vertical position. True horizontal tanks are meant to be mounted in the horizontal position and not moved for filling. These may have the vapor valve at the same or a lower level than the fill valve, but there must be some sort of internal tube in a case like this so that only vapor will be drawn off and not liquid when these are properly filled and used. As I do not have one to cut apart and see how it is made internally, I must speculate, but think this is likely a good reflection of the actual construction. However, if someone has better information, please add it so this will be an accurate and more useful discussion.
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

GlueGuy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2628	Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 2:02pm
	That is exactly the situation. You want to draw vapor, and not liquid, so that requires that the pickup be at the top of the tank. Tanks designed to be mounted horizontally don't have the outlet at the end of the cylinder, but at the side AND they can not be rotated (to keep the pickup inside the tank at the top).
	bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost

geewizard Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 16 Apr 2017 Location: Spokane Online Status: Offline Posts: 347	Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 2:29pm
	Indeed true. Thanks for the clarification.
	2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB 2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD 2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper 2014 Toyota Tundra DC

furpod Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group - pHp Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Location: Central KY Online Status: Offline Posts: 6128	Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 3:46pm
	I don't see any issue with carrying in a mount, on it's side. Just swap it into the upright rack before use. Or, now that you have extra room, move the existing tank rack as far towards the body as possible, and see if you have room for an extra (3rd) tank on the A frame in front of them. Our current camper has this arraignment... Called "tri Five" by the manufacturer

StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288	Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 7:49pm
	Now I know why it is unsafe to transport or store 20 lb propane cylinders on their sides, especially if they are full enough so that the safety relief valve would be covered by liquid propane. I might consider changing from a single-tank mount to a dual-tank mount now that I have made the changes. I don't think the tri Five would be workable for me.
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

podwerkz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 Mar 2019 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 966	Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 10:50pm
	Carrying two 30 pounder tanks, vertically in the rack, will get you about the same amount of propane as three of the 20 pounders.
	r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288	Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 5:41am
	30 pound cylinders would not be easy to get in and out of a rack like the one I have now because of the Stromberg-Carlsen Trailer Tray which limits the space above them. However, a dual-rack which does not have the ring would work as they could go in from the sides instead of having to go over the ring.
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

podwerkz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 Mar 2019 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 966	Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 8:21am
	Yeah they do get kinda heavy when full. No problem tho, just install a small motorized lifting crane in the back of the tow vehicle! <<you always have to insert a smiley like this or SOMEBODY will take the joke seriously!
	r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288	Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 8:38am
	Believe it or not, I thought about that when I was thinking of getting a larger generator. Seriously though, I just ordered a double 20 lb tank rack, auto-changeover regulator, and Camco cover. I will need to figure out how to mount the rack. The original rack is welded to the A frame. I may cut the square section out and use the remaining parts to bolt the new rack in rather than drilling holes in the A frame or trying to use U bolts around the A frame to hold the rack in place. That decision will wait until the rack arrives though and I see where it fits best and can clear the brackets and jacks for the Hensley Cub hitch.
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 9:04am
	The applicable standard for design of propane systems on RV's in the US is NFPA 1192, Chapter 5. You can set up an account and get free access to NFPA standards for personal use here. That will also get you access to the national electric code (NFPA 70) and maybe some other useful specs. https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/All-Codes-and-Standards/Free-access I did a quick scan and the only thing I saw that might be an issue with moving the propane cylinders back toward the trailer box is the requirement that the cylinder pressure relief outlet be a minimum of 3 feet from any appliance intake or exhaust port. So the water heater might possibly get too close. If it is you can pipe away the pressure relief vent. But you should probably read through the standard yourself, I didn't spend a lot of time scanning it.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold