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Topic ClosedTowing Speed
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Poll Question: I normally like to tow at
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5 [10.42%]
33 [68.75%]
10 [20.83%]
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offgrid View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:03pm
Looks like CA max anywhere is 70 where posted, otherwise 65. 

The only thing I could easily find was when sections were raised to 70 from 65 back in 1996. At that point there were about 1300 miles of rural freeway raised to 70. That would be a lot of freeway in most states but not in CA. Of course, no one expects urban freeways to be posted at 70. But long stretches of the main freeways in and out of CA and up and down the central valley are at 70.
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 11:21am
Originally posted by offgrid

CA is the outlier here, with a 15 mph speed difference regulated in. The great majority of states have the same max speed limit towing and not, and in the few that don't its only a 5 mph difference (10 in WA). If you want to blame that on the trucking industry lobby, with CA and WA the lone outposts of sanity, I suppose you can do so. 

Sorry. The delta is 10 MPH. Almost the entire state with very few exceptions has a 65 MPH limit. In very rural areas, it might be 70 or 75, but those are rare. 

That said, I usually set the cruise for 59 or maybe 60, so the delta ends up being more like 5 MPH except for scofflaws.
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 10:47am
Those are called 'split speed limits'...and they are generally recognized as unsafe.

Yes the trucking industry has successfully lobbied many states to remove split speed limits.

When all else fails, remember this fact: split speed limits, and in fact, all speed limits, are all about generating revenue, first, and about safety, second.
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 10:30am
No, sorry, you can't have super top secret speed limits. What would be the point of that? Disapprove

The situation is VA is quite simple. Here's the language from the VA DMV manual: "Unless there is a speed limit sign stating otherwise, the maximum speed limit for passenger vehicles and motorcycles is 25 MPH for school, business and residential areas; 35 MPH for unpaved roads and 55 MPH for all other roads." 

Max speed limit on rural interstates is 70, and it is posted that way, no difference whether you're towing something or not. If a freeway is posted lower than that then that's the limit. it is not that hard to figure out. My original example, I81 in SW VA, is posted at 70 for most of its length, with sections at 65 due to turns, grades, or proximity to urban areas. 

CA is the outlier here, with a 15 mph speed difference regulated in. The great majority of states have the same max speed limit towing and not, and in the few that don't its only a 5 mph difference (10 in WA). If you want to blame that on the trucking industry lobby, with CA and WA the lone outposts of sanity, I suppose you can do so. 

Not everyone would agree. For the reasons stated I think its safer to have all the traffic moving at about the same speed. There are many many studies that show that driving significantly slower than the flow of traffic is dangerous. 

Where do you get that I am towing in violation of speed laws?  You are saying that you sometimes drive +5 mph of the limit, not me. I don't tow in CA. I suppose if I ever did I'd have to make a decision about whether I could safely drive the double nickel or not, but it hasn't come up. Ying Yang
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 9:38am
Originally posted by lostagain

Traffic engineers are the ones who usually set the speed limits based upon their agreed upon criteria.  See for example:  https://www.ite.org/technical-resources/topics/speed-management-for-safety/setting-speed-limits/  Generally, they use the 85th percentile approach which says the speed limit should be set within 5 mph, plus or minus, of the 85th percentile speed, as measured on the road.  That speed is adjusted in recognition of other road characteristics, such as alignment, parking activity, pedestrian movement, residential and commercial activity, and other factors affecting safety.

Since I am no traffic engineer and they generally know what they are doing, I'll give them the respect they earned and try to stick to within +/- 5mph of the limit.  If others don't want to wear a mask and wash their hands, well that's their issue as long as I'm not on the road with them.  When a big rig driver wants to drive 80 when the limit is 65, I'm not going to join him in his foolishness.  I'll just try to keep out of his way.

As for lawsuits, it isn't the suit that matters.  It's living with the decision of 12 ordinary people who looked at what you did and said you were were the one to blame in the fatal accident.  I wouldn't want to carry that around the rest of my life.  

Well, since CA is the only state with a statewide 55 mph limit for towing, I suppose that traffic engineers get trained differently in CA universities than in other states? But wait, I expect that max speed limits are set by legislators, not traffic engineers. Few state legislators are engineers by profession.

Re violation of statutory speed limits, I said I tow between 65-67 when conditions permit and I would otherwise be creating a hazard by impeding traffic. otherwise I tow at either 60-62 or at the posted limit for that roadway. So, in my state that is 3-5 mph under the limit, not 5 or more over the limit. I'm glad I don't tow in CA as I think creating a situation with a 15 plus mph built in speed difference between RV's and trucks and passenger vehicles is not a good idea. 
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Posts: 2587 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 9:20am
It's not so clear in VA.  Read the rule:  https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-870/  The only place where there is a speed limit of 70 is on a very select few highways meeting the criteria in the statute.  The rest of the time it is substantially lower, and even more so for trucks and trailer towing vehicles.  Technically it appears that trucks can go 70 on designated highways, but it appears it's legislature has ignored the reasoning that it used for having a truck speed limit lower everywhere else, probably as a result of the trucking industry lobby.  And, that 70 speed limit is tempered by the basic speed law adopted in VA.  http://www.virginiadot.org/info/faq-speedlimits.asp  So if there are any conditions that justify a lower maximum speed, you can't go 70.  You must slow down to a "reasonable" speed for the circumstances.

As for other states, there is a lot of conflicting information on the internet.  One source that may be more reliable is the AAA site:  https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/trailer-speed-limits/  For each of us, if we are going to drive in states where we don't know the speed limits for towing, it is our responsibility to find out.  If you can't get it from a reliable web site like AAA's, then stop at the state's welcome center as you enter and find out.  Probably it'd be a nice time to take a leak too.

As for California, I would hardly call the engineers who work for CalTrans laughable for setting a 55 mph speed limit for vehicles that are towing something.  It is insulting to those very capable engineers who have studied the situation and exercised their best judgment.  CalTrans has led the standards for road construction in much of the country and has not rolled over for the trucking industry lobby.   Would it hurt to raise the limit to 60?  Probably it would be more in line with the 85% "rule," but it's the law there whether you like it or not. 

There is a more fundamental issue underlying the issue of speed limits.  We have a big problem in this country with people thinking the law only applies to others, not to them.  Whether you like it or not, speed limits apply to you.  No one is above the law, at least so says our Constitution.  
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 8:03am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

 
What do you mean "some"? They are all either 55 or 65 (I may have missed one or two). I didn't count, but it looked about evenly split. Which ones you want to laugh at?

You are right to question me, i didn't look into the numbers in that web link closely enough. I don't know where the author got is data but it is not correct. 

VA for example has a max speed limit of 70 for all vehicles, there isn't a different one for vehicles towing trailers. I should have known that as I just moved here a couple months ago and read the DMV manual. I would have remembered something like a 55 mph trailer speed limit. It doesn't exist. Yet another example of needing to be careful what one believes on the internet I guess. 

It turns out only a very few states do have different speed limits when towing. Of those, CA is the only one with the towing limit at 55. WA is 60. The others are higher. 

So, the answer is to your question is: CA is the one that is most laughable, with WA coming in second. But, what else is new?  At least in CA it is well posted and not a super top secret special speed limit. LOL.  
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Posts: 2587 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 9:40pm
Traffic engineers are the ones who usually set the speed limits based upon their agreed upon criteria.  See for example:  https://www.ite.org/technical-resources/topics/speed-management-for-safety/setting-speed-limits/  Generally, they use the 85th percentile approach which says the speed limit should be set within 5 mph, plus or minus, of the 85th percentile speed, as measured on the road.  That speed is adjusted in recognition of other road characteristics, such as alignment, parking activity, pedestrian movement, residential and commercial activity, and other factors affecting safety.

Since I am no traffic engineer and they generally know what they are doing, I'll give them the respect they earned and try to stick to within +/- 5mph of the limit.  If others don't want to wear a mask and wash their hands, well that's their issue as long as I'm not on the road with them.  When a big rig driver wants to drive 80 when the limit is 65, I'm not going to join him in his foolishness.  I'll just try to keep out of his way.

As for lawsuits, it isn't the suit that matters.  It's living with the decision of 12 ordinary people who looked at what you did and said you were were the one to blame in the fatal accident.  I wouldn't want to carry that around the rest of my life.  
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Unfortunately some of those speed limits are pretty laughable. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone tow at 55 in VA for example. I prefer saving fuel and towing at 60-62 but I’ll choose safety over economy. If I’m holding up traffic that is more stressful and unsafe than just driving at 65-67 closer to the normal flow of traffic in the right lane. Frequently there is no good alternative route, uncontrolled access two lane highways are much less safe than the interstates if there is significant traffic.
What do you mean "some"? They are all either 55 or 65 (I may have missed one or two). I didn't count, but it looked about evenly split. Which ones you want to laugh at?
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 4:36pm
Say you're towing at 60. You aren't unsafe in one state that happens to have a 55 mph limit and then miraculously achieve safety when you cross the state line where the limit is 65. I acknowledge that you would most certainly lose a lawsuit though.

The physics says that the kinetic energy your rig carries (which you can think of as the damage it could do to yourself and others before coming to a stop) is 40% higher at 65 than at 55 (kinetic energy goes with the square of velocity). That is nothing to sneeze at (although I guess there is nothing we should be sneezing at these days Dead). 

But the 40% additional energy your rig is carrying is only part of the puzzle. The road and weather conditions obviously need to be considered as well of course.  But the impact you are having on other traffic, and the risk the other traffic is placing on you is critical to your safety. 

That is where the relative speed difference comes in. If you "rub" (NASCAR term) other traffic the kinetic energy being transferred is also proportional to the square of the speed, but in this case its the square of the speed difference between you and the other vehicle. So you really don't want huge speed differences between you and heavy vehicles like semis passing two feet away from you. If that semi "rubbed" you (or vice versa) and you're only going a couple mph different in speed not much is going to happen other than some cosmetic damage, but if he's passing you at a relative speed difference of of 25-30 mph its a very different story. You will be off the road (at best) in a heartbeat. 

So, if the road and weather conditions are good I will choose to drive a little faster if traffic demands it to avoid creating risk to myself and others by being a bottleneck. The day that I drive at the legal speed limit because I'm more worried about litigation than actually being safe is the day I think I will give up my driver's licence.  
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