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Topic ClosedTowing Speed

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Poll Question: I normally like to tow at
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33 [68.75%]
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Towing Speed
    Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 10:30am
No, sorry, you can't have super top secret speed limits. What would be the point of that? Disapprove

The situation is VA is quite simple. Here's the language from the VA DMV manual: "Unless there is a speed limit sign stating otherwise, the maximum speed limit for passenger vehicles and motorcycles is 25 MPH for school, business and residential areas; 35 MPH for unpaved roads and 55 MPH for all other roads." 

Max speed limit on rural interstates is 70, and it is posted that way, no difference whether you're towing something or not. If a freeway is posted lower than that then that's the limit. it is not that hard to figure out. My original example, I81 in SW VA, is posted at 70 for most of its length, with sections at 65 due to turns, grades, or proximity to urban areas. 

CA is the outlier here, with a 15 mph speed difference regulated in. The great majority of states have the same max speed limit towing and not, and in the few that don't its only a 5 mph difference (10 in WA). If you want to blame that on the trucking industry lobby, with CA and WA the lone outposts of sanity, I suppose you can do so. 

Not everyone would agree. For the reasons stated I think its safer to have all the traffic moving at about the same speed. There are many many studies that show that driving significantly slower than the flow of traffic is dangerous. 

Where do you get that I am towing in violation of speed laws?  You are saying that you sometimes drive +5 mph of the limit, not me. I don't tow in CA. I suppose if I ever did I'd have to make a decision about whether I could safely drive the double nickel or not, but it hasn't come up. Ying Yang
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 10:47am
Those are called 'split speed limits'...and they are generally recognized as unsafe.

Yes the trucking industry has successfully lobbied many states to remove split speed limits.

When all else fails, remember this fact: split speed limits, and in fact, all speed limits, are all about generating revenue, first, and about safety, second.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 11:21am
Originally posted by offgrid

CA is the outlier here, with a 15 mph speed difference regulated in. The great majority of states have the same max speed limit towing and not, and in the few that don't its only a 5 mph difference (10 in WA). If you want to blame that on the trucking industry lobby, with CA and WA the lone outposts of sanity, I suppose you can do so. 

Sorry. The delta is 10 MPH. Almost the entire state with very few exceptions has a 65 MPH limit. In very rural areas, it might be 70 or 75, but those are rare. 

That said, I usually set the cruise for 59 or maybe 60, so the delta ends up being more like 5 MPH except for scofflaws.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 12:03pm
Looks like CA max anywhere is 70 where posted, otherwise 65. 

The only thing I could easily find was when sections were raised to 70 from 65 back in 1996. At that point there were about 1300 miles of rural freeway raised to 70. That would be a lot of freeway in most states but not in CA. Of course, no one expects urban freeways to be posted at 70. But long stretches of the main freeways in and out of CA and up and down the central valley are at 70.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 2:34pm
The list provided by StephenH lists 15 states with 55 mph trailer towing limits.  

The VA statute states:  Except as otherwise provided in this article, the maximum speed limit shall be 55 miles per hour on interstate highways or other limited access highways with divided roadways, nonlimited access highways having four or more lanes, and all state primary highways.

The maximum speed limit on all other highways shall be 55 miles per hour if the vehicle is a passenger motor vehicle, bus, pickup or panel truck, or a motorcycle, but 45 miles per hour on such highways if the vehicle is a truck, tractor truck, or combination of vehicles designed to transport property, or is a motor vehicle being used to tow a vehicle designed for self-propulsion, or a house trailer. [Emphasis added.]

Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, the maximum speed limit shall be 70 miles per hour where indicated by lawfully placed signs, erected subsequent to a traffic engineering study and analysis of available and appropriate accident and law-enforcement data, on (i) interstate highways; (ii) multilane, divided, limited access highways; and (iii) high-occupancy vehicle lanes if such lanes are physically separated from regular travel lanes. The maximum speed limit shall be 60 miles per hour where indicated by lawfully placed signs, erected subsequent to a traffic engineering study and analysis of available and appropriate accident and law-enforcement data, on U.S. Route 17, U.S. Route 23, U.S. Route 29, U.S. Route 58, U.S. Alternate Route 58, U.S. Route 301, U.S. Route 360, U.S. Route 460, U.S. Route 501 between the Town of South Boston and the North Carolina state line, State Route 3, and State Route 207 where such routes are nonlimited access, multilane, divided highways.

No doubt some places use speed limits as revenue enhancers, but in more civilized states, speed traps are illegal.  The wisdom of split speed limits is debatable and it would be interested in seeing what professional traffic engineers have to say about it.  Just as one would not hire an urologist to perform open heart surgery, though s/he may be an outstanding urologist, perhaps we should look to highly trained traffic engineers to help settle this question.

Since each state is empowered to set it's own speed limits and we don't have a national speed limit, then our obligation is to follow the speed laws of the state we're in, even if we think they are silly, inappropriate, porrly thought out, laughable, revenue enhancers, or just plane dumb.  And most states, in the last analysis, have superimposed on all their speed limits, the basic speed law; i.e., no one should drive faster than is safe for existing conditions.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 6:46pm
So, is your interpretation that the speed limit for a semi or a passenger vehicle towing a travel trailer on i81 here in SW VA, which is posted at 70, is actually 45 mph? Better let the VA Staties know🤔. A travel trailer is not a house trailer btw.

We have established that StephenH’s link is out of date. Any number of other websites have the correct figures. Try Wikipedia or your AAA link. This one has a interesting detailed discussion.

https://rvnerds.com/resources/speed-limits-and-towing/

I agree that we need to follow the regs in our respective states. I have an issue with CA’s regs but it’s a moot point since I don’t tow a trailer there.

As for the engineering, the issue with high differential speeds is essentially that the faster or slower you drive relative to the average speed of the traffic the more vehicles you interact with and the higher the probability that you will have an accident. It’s called the Solomon curve and was first documented 50 years ago. It’s actually worse when you are going slower than the traffic than faster. Also, if you do interact with a vehicle going at a significantly different speed, the kinetic energy that could be transferred to your rig is much greater than if the speed difference is small because it goes with the square of the speed difference.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 7:20pm
No, the speed limit on I81 in VA, if posted at 70, seems to apply to all vehicles.  It's 45 on some highways.  Read the statute.  I cut and pasted it as written.  As for whether it applies to an RV trailer, the statute isn't very clear.  I'd want to contact a VA lawyer, if I was worried about it.  But since the NV legislature writes things a little more clearly here, I don't have to worry about it.  We don't have a split limit.  I drive 60 if the limit is 65 and do my best to not impede others.  If I am not concerned about impeding others, I'll knock it down a nickel.  In CA, I set the cruise control to 55.  That's the law.

As for traffic engineering issues, I'll just leave it to those whose expertise and professional experience is in that field.  Like I say, no matter how well qualified a medical doctor, who is a urologist, may be, s/he isn't going to do open heart surgery on me.  So, I may grumble and whine when I have to drive slower than I'd like, but I'm going to do my best to respect the law.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 9:35pm
So we agree I can legally tow at 67 on I81. I’m not violating statute and I feel safer than I would driving 60 which I would prefer to do if not for the traffic. So it’s all good. 👍

I’m personally not at all worried about the possibility of being cited for not towing at 45 on VA’s lovely secondary highways because some overzealous state trooper decides my rpod is a house trailer. I typically cruise along about 50 on those and enjoy the view anyway. So I’m not planning to contact a lawyer, a urologist or a cardiologist. Well, at least not about speed limits. 😱

BTW it looks like most of I80 east of metro Reno in NV is posted at 80, towing or not. I guess that would seriously burn up some fossil fuel.

https://www.nevadadot.com/home/showdocument?id=17053

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 10:07pm
The 80 limit on I-80 is new, but copies UT, 80 all the way from just west of Salt Lake to the NV state line.  Personally, I find driving that fast very uncomfortable in a Mazda cx5.  There is no way I'm driving that speed with a trailer.  I'll keep it around 60, but a 20 mph differential is just plain scary.  Far better to take US 50 to head east.  It's slower and much more interesting.  Great places to camp along the way.

My experience with the rules of the road in the original 13 colonies is that they have no sense of organization.  In NJ I had to look up some driving rules and found them mixed in with laws about utterly unrelated topics, such as a contract rule and murder laws, and there were all kinds of rules about horse drawn sleighs.  In the entire time I lived in NJ, I never saw a horse drawn sleigh on a road.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 1:13am
LOL! I'm on my 2nd CX-5 and wouldn't think twice about 85 on an interstate highway.   

I'm also a retired Civil Engineer. There is more politics and less engineering in speed limits than any other part of civil engineering. Speed limits in Chattanooga/Hamilton County are more often set by management based on resident complaints than an engineering study.

Notwithstanding voodoo engineering, the regulations are the regulations and the speed limit is what is posted. Failure to obey risks a citation. Buy the best Electronic Counter Measures you can find.

A safe speed is in the pucker of the beholder. I counsel conservative energy management and 1 or 2 escape routes.
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