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offgrid
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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Topic: Broken Welds on Floor Joists Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 7:21pm |
Originally posted by lostagain
They don't make meth in Dayton. That's in Silver Springs, 15 miles east of here. And rPods are perfect to store the chemicals and final product.
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Acetone, benzene, ethanol, ether, phosphorous, toluene. No gasoline required for those trailers, although that is sometimes used to cook meth too.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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lostagain
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Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Quaker Hill, CT
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 5:54pm |
They don't make meth in Dayton. That's in Silver Springs, 15 miles east of here. And rPods are perfect to store the chemicals and final product.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 2:41pm |
Originally posted by lostagain
If it'd make it to NV, heck, it'd fit right in with all the other trailers that have been abandoned. We drive by one every time we go into town.
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Dunno, rpods might be a little on the small side to be meth labs.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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lostagain
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Location: Quaker Hill, CT
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 2:28pm |
Um, err, I kind of think that in countries that have the rule of law, insurance fraud and arson, not to mention unauthorized burning of trash, could be a crime, but perhaps I'm wrong again.
Maybe hauling it down to New Hampshire, abandoning it, and escaping back to Ontario might be the trick.
If it'd make it to NV, heck, it'd fit right in with all the other trailers that have been abandoned. We drive by one every time we go into town.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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podwerkz
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Location: Texas
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 1:23pm |
Solution: Lots of full coverage insurance and a can of gasoline.
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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!
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offgrid
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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 8:54am |
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule
Originally posted by offgrid
Originally posted by mjlrpod
I can tell you without a doubt, those welds are absolutely no good. On one photo, you can see there was zero penetration on the floor joist. It was a cold weld and not up to standards. I would pursue that with forest river for sure. Get a weld shop to write you an opinion on that weld, they will know just looking at it it was a cold torch.
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Consider that the welds are probably only there to tack the aluminum frame together until the plywood is attached. I'm guessing that's why FR doesn't care how its welded. The plywood ties everything together. If its dry that works fine but if it gets wet then there is no structure left. Put another way, I'm not convinced the welds were the root cause of this problem, I think its more likely that the water intrusion happened first. Just my opinion.
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Oh come on now... Those welds are there to support the exterior wall, not the plywood. |
Nope, you are thinking about the construction as if it were an old school stick built house, but its not. The floors are a laminated diaphram system, look at just around 2 minutes into this video. The system depends on all the components working together to support the structure. The whole thing is glued together under pressure. The plywood is a crucial element, if it delaminates then the whole system fails. This is how the trailer manufacturers save weight (and not incidentally cost) but it makes the whole trailer much more susceptible to water intrusion.
If you want to see the tack welding procedure its around 40 seconds in. There is no way tack welding that thin wall aluminum square tubing like that can carry the loads without the plywood glued to it.
If you spent all the money on legal fees and expert testimony as LA referenced, FR would simply point out that this is normal construction practice in the ultralight trailer world and works fine unless the trailer has been neglected and water intrusion has occurred.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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lostagain
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Location: Quaker Hill, CT
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 8:19am |
Old, I don't quite follow what you are saying when you say "I was speaking of you."
Do you truly think that if Belinda has Geoffrey's Welding and Farm Supply write a letter saying that FR did a lousy job on the aluminum welding that FR is going to pay any attention to it? I will give you 100 to 1 odds that they'd shrug, then send a nice letter back saying that they believe the problem was causedowner neglect and a lack of maintenance that they will not repair. If she hires Failure Analysis, Inc. at about $1000 an hour, I'm sure in at least 15 hours of careful field and laboratory examination, plus travel and lodging, she can show that the welds were probably tack welds and could have been done better. When FR gets the Failure Analysis, Inc. report, they will dutifully read it, admire the careful and thoughtful work, then send a letter back declining the repair because the trailer is out of warranty, is over a year old, was not purchased from an authorized dealer, and that the problem was caused by owner negligence and lack of maintenance. Belinda will be out maybe $15-20K and no better off than she was before she went to Geoffrey's Welding. Again, I could be wrong, and ususally am, but that doesn't seem like a very good way to spend one's money.
You stated: "If this ever happens to you, give me a call. I'm come pick it up and get it off your hands." I suggested to Belinda in my post that she avail herself of your remarkably generous offer. Were you making that offer to her? Or was that just hyperbole that you were directing to me? Best if she could sell off the valuable parts, but given the age of the trailer, there isn't much besides the various circuit boards that is worth a lot as salvage. Your kind offer to haul it away is truly the optimum solution, if you were making it good faith, and she should avail herself of that opportunity.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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Olddawgsrule
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Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
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Posts: 1014
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 5:25am |
Originally posted by lostagain
I could be wrong, but at least based upon the videos from the FR factory, Lippert makes the chassis but not the floor structure. The aluminum welding is by FR's employees. And in fairness to the welders, they are not really given the time to do a workman like job.
One can push FR to do something, but the chances of success under these circumstances, are slim to none. Yes, you can pay some welding shop person write a letter and tell FR the welding was lousy, but if you think that will be persuasive to them, I've got a bridge I'll give you a good deal on. To have a metallurgist examine the welds and write an "expert" opinion would be very costly. The costs of convincing FR that they messed up would far exceed the fair market value of the trailer. .... and that's before you even thought about bringing in the evil ones, .... the lawyers.
If Olddwawgsrule is wiling to take it off your hands and is willing to drive to beautiful Ontario, take him up on it. It's far better option than having to pay a junk dealer to haul it away.
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I was speaking of you! She's doing the deed.
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Olddawgsrule
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Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 5:24am |
Originally posted by offgrid
Originally posted by mjlrpod
I can tell you without a doubt, those welds are absolutely no good. On one photo, you can see there was zero penetration on the floor joist. It was a cold weld and not up to standards. I would pursue that with forest river for sure. Get a weld shop to write you an opinion on that weld, they will know just looking at it it was a cold torch.
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Consider that the welds are probably only there to tack the aluminum frame together until the plywood is attached. I'm guessing that's why FR doesn't care how its welded. The plywood ties everything together. If its dry that works fine but if it gets wet then there is no structure left. Put another way, I'm not convinced the welds were the root cause of this problem, I think its more likely that the water intrusion happened first. Just my opinion.
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Oh come on now... Those welds are there to support the exterior wall, not the plywood.
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
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Posted: 11 Jul 2020 at 9:13pm |
Originally posted by mjlrpod
I can tell you without a doubt, those welds are absolutely no good. On one photo, you can see there was zero penetration on the floor joist. It was a cold weld and not up to standards. I would pursue that with forest river for sure. Get a weld shop to write you an opinion on that weld, they will know just looking at it it was a cold torch.
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Consider that the welds are probably only there to tack the aluminum frame together until the plywood is attached. I'm guessing that's why FR doesn't care how its welded. The plywood ties everything together. If its dry that works fine but if it gets wet then there is no structure left. Put another way, I'm not convinced the welds were the root cause of this problem, I think its more likely that the water intrusion happened first. Just my opinion.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
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