New Vehicle - Towing Questions

The third post in this thread raised the comparison of turbo vs. naturally aspirated.  That's why turbos are in the discussion.  

Originally posted by lostagain The third post in this thread raised the comparison of turbo vs. naturally aspirated.  That's why turbos are in the discussion.   As for advantages of turbos for towing, they deliver a more powerful engine while using less fuel.  Certainly they are more complex engines, but the technology is well established and reliable.  It'd be nice to be able to tow with an electric vehicle or even a hybrid, but neither works well for that purpose.   Yes, a naturally aspirated engine works alright for towing, provided you don't mind the 3% horsepower drop for each 1000 feet of altitude, but it is undeniable that turbo engines are more efficient when it comes to fuel consumption.

Yes turbos were in the discussion but I wasn't challenging that. My original post was related to diesels vs gassers.

I think we agree except for the broad statement that turbos are more efficient than normally aspirated engines. If that was always the case then my Prius would not be normally aspirated, it is Toyota's flagship efficiency vehicle after all and their engineers are no strangers to turbos. Remember the Supra? But there are other ways to get high efficiency. The Prius uses an Atkinson cycle engine to achieve that.

Toyota's brand value is based on their vehicles' reliability more than on performance so that could also be one reason they don't sell many turbos now. I think the only ones Toyota has are some high performance Lexus models.

Speaking of reliability issues I hear there is a class action lawsuit now against Ford for major reliability problems with some of their Ecoboost engines. Tip if the iceberg or isolated issue? Time will tell, but I'll wait it out, I'm not interested in joining the litigation as a potential plaintiff down the road....

Originally posted by lostagain Though hybrid power plants are very efficient systems (and could probably be little more efficient with a turbo boosted engine, though probably not enough to justify the extra cost) they are irrelevant to the issue of towing a travel trailer.   As for lawsuits against Ford for the Ecoboost engine, yes, there are, but they don't concern the 2.7 and 3.2 liter engines.  There have been class action suits against all of the major manufacturers, including Toyota, and specifically the Prius.  So you already are a plaintiff in an ongoing class action suit that was reported in the spring of 2020.

Since the F150 is now available with a hybrid system that has a 12700 lb tow rating, I don't think you can say that hybrids are incompatible with towing. You can design a hybrid for performance rather than efficiency which is what Ford has done.

Re efficiency. apparently the Atkinson cycle engine is not compatible with turbocharging. Needs to run in a narrow rpm range to work properly which the hybrid power train allows. The point is to say that a turbocharged engine is always more efficient is to disregard alternative methods to achieve the results you want. Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail.

Toyota was working on a turbocharged variable valve timing system which was supposed to morph between an Otto cycle when boosted and power was needed and an unboosted Atkinson mode while cruising at low power output. No sure what happened with that engine.


Re the Toyota lawsuit, I assume you're referring to braking one,
nothing to do with drivetrain reliability. There are always recalls and litigation of one sort it another. The question is whether it is pertinent to the topic under discussion. The Ford Ecoboost one is specifically for engine reliability issues. It is for the smaller engines in the lineup but there have been a bunch of issues owners have reported with the 3.5 as well. Not the 2.7 yet but that is a newer release.

As I said, time will tell. I like new high efficiency tech but I'm conservative, I didn't buy my Prius until they were on the market for over a decade and in their 3rd generation. I haven't bought an EV yet either but when I ultimately replace my Prius thats what I'll get.

+ 1 to Glue Guy's comments on the Ecoboost reliability.  It's a non-issue for the F-150.

When we had the 2016 Escape with the 2L Ecoboost engine, I never noticed any turbo lag. I would likely still have it if we hadn't had the accident. I miss the turbo and wish one or a supercharger could be retrofitted to the Frontier.