New Vehicle - Towing Questions |
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jato
Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Location: Kewadin, MI Online Status: Offline Posts: 3220 |
Topic: New Vehicle - Towing Questions Posted: 06 May 2021 at 7:48pm |
This came from a good friend of ours who is hosting the R-Pod Rally in Traverse City next month. Thanks you for considering his question. jato Currently towing our 179 with a 2005 GMC Envoy SLT with a towing
capacity of 5000 pounds. Looking at purchasing a 2021 Jeep Grand
Cherokee 80th Anniversary model. The 2021 JEEP
GRAND CHEROKEE has a base towing capacity of 3500 pounds. However, when
equipped with the Trailer Tow Group IV factory install, the vehicle’s
towing capacity is increased to 6200 pounds. We’re
hoping the added JGC towing capacity of 6200 pounds, along with our Blu
Ox weight distribution with sway control hitch, and our 1140 Curt
Manufacturing electric brake controller will more than suffice for our
needs. Any thoughts? Thank you very much in advance for sharing your perspective.
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God's pod
'11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
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bhiggins
Newbie Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Location: Canmore Online Status: Offline Posts: 3 |
Posted: 06 May 2021 at 9:01pm |
Hi, we tow our 176 with a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 3.6L gas, with the factory tow package and a weight distribution hitch. It tows great on flat land, but is underpowered in the mountains where we live. Mileage is fine on flat land, but fuel consumption is pretty well double in the mountains. I'd go with the diesel engine were I to do it again.
Brian
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 06 May 2021 at 9:32pm |
Any naturally aspirated engine will have trouble in the mountains. A good alternative is an engine with a turbocharger or supercharger since that will stuff air in and then altitude does not matter as much. Be prepared to shell out for premium fuel though to get that performance. Diesel is nice, but very expensive to purchase. For most people, the cost difference will not be recovered. However, it is hard to beat a Diesel's low end torque except for electric which is impractical for long-distance towing.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 5:45am |
The Ecoboost engine is one to consider. We climbed passes many times in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and just drove across the country crossing the Rockies and we had power to spare with our tiny 2.7 Ecoboost engine with very good fuel economy. That engine needs only normal "regular" gasoline [87 octane]. We are towing a trailer that is rated as a GVW of 4775 lbs. The down side is that there isn't a lot of engine braking on steep descents, but that's true of any small displacement engine.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 6:43am |
The primary consideration for a tow vehicle is it's ability to handle the weight of the trailer. That has zero to do with horsepower. The famous WW2 deuce and a half truck win the war for us (and for the Russians, we gave them hundreds of thousands under lend lease). They were around 100hp but could handle enormous loads. They just went slow.
So a 6200 lb rated Grand Cherokee will be fine for load handling. As far as horsepower is concerned, that will determine how fast you can go, and is a personal decision based on where you drive and your driving style. I personally find my 270 hp Highlander more than adequate. Horsepower is horsepower. There is nothing special about diesel horsepower. You will climb a mountain with a 300 hp gasser just as fast as you will with a 300 hp diesel. Low rpm torque has nothing to do with it, you will be running your engine at high rpm either way. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2629 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 9:47am |
I would argue with that. Our 3.5L EcoBoost hits near maximum torque at ~~ 1800 RPM, and the torque output continues almost flat until redline. We tow at ~~ 1600 RPM most of the time, and when we climb the mountain it generally only downshifts one gear, and we rarely see over 2500 RPM. It's a towing monster. (and we do use regular gas most of the time; we only use premium when we are towing).
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 10:38am |
We have had similar experiences to Glue Guy with our 2.7 Ecoboost. It has plenty of power and typically, in tow transmission mode, runs around 2000 rpm to 2500 on a steep grade. Having adequate torque and horsepower means that you don't have to put up with a roaring engine wrestling up steep hills. Our Dakota had a 4.7L v-8 with natural aspiration and struggled over Carson pass in first or second gear [position1 on the shift lever]. High rpm is not pleasant to listen to for very long.
We burn regular gas [87 octane] for all uses. I tried some premium on the way to the east coast a couple weeks ago, but noticed no discernible difference in the engine operation or power. We don't use the 85 octane gas sold in some mountain states such as Utah, since the owner's manual recommends against it.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:13pm |
You guys are taking about turbos vs normally aspirated engines. I was discussing diesels vs gassers. Never mentioned turbocharging. Two different topics. So ok we can talk about turbos.
No matter what fuel an engine uses or how it gets it's air, if two engines are each making 300 hp at a specific elevation then they will both proceed up the hill at the same speed. Of course. Obviously turbos can produce higher horsepower at higher elevations because they compress the air entering the engine. So the air charge can be independent (to a degree) of atmospheric pressure. So a normally aspirated engine will produce less hp at higher elevation than a turbo will, until the turbo waste gate which regulates the amount of exhaust gasses to the turbine wheel eventually can't provide any more boost at which point the turbo power output will begin to fall off as well. It's not just a matter of adjusting the turbo boost to counter the lower pressure at higher altitudes (called turbonormalizing) though, because compressing the air charge heats it and that in turn reduces it's density. That's what intercoolers are for, they cool the entering air charge which regains some of the power lost to lower density. The net result is that power output typically falls off with increasing altitude in turbo engines too, just more slowly than with normally aspirated ones. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:20pm |
Of course any kind of engine will lose efficiency/power with increasing altitude. But as StephenH correctly pointed out, a naturally aspirated engine will lose power in the mountains while a turbo boosted engine will giver better performance, i.e. more horsepower and more torque. And as Glue Guy points out, the torque on an Ecoboost engine does not drop off as it does with a naturally aspirated engine. The amount of power loss for a turbo boosted engine is not very significant at typical North American road elevation. So, if you do a lot of high mountain driving, it may be worth considering a turbo boosted engine.
Another advantage to a turbo boosted engine is that it's a bit easier on gas consumption. They deliver more power with less gas through more efficient combustion. Certainly, they have their "issues," but in the end, they are better performing engines than naturally aspirated ones.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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tcj
Senior Member Joined: 05 Jul 2018 Location: Central WA Online Status: Offline Posts: 141 |
Posted: 07 May 2021 at 5:18pm |
The WW2 deuce and a half had Clydesdales for horses. Modern "High RPM engines" have old gray mares.
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2018 R-pod 180 Hood River Edition
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