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Is my WFCO converter/charger killing my batteries?

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Welchsoft View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Welchsoft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is my WFCO converter/charger killing my batteries?
    Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 5:14am
I will check that.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 2:21pm
That's great! What current do you read on the shunt when you're charging at sat 40-50% SOC with all your loads off. Shut the WFCO off and back on and under those conditions it should be around 40A.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Welchsoft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 6:05am
I have a GoPower Solar Controller which shows the amount of charge in volts, and I have a Aili Voltmeter which shows volts/amps in and out and has a 100amp shunt at the battery.  The two instruments are quite close on their readings of current state of charge.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 5:30pm
Something's not right with your charging and/or you're using a huge amount of electricity, or your state of charge is higher than you think.

The WFCO should be producing 40A or so until battery voltage gets pretty high, so in 4 hours you should be getting close to full charge even if you started at a low SOC.

How are you determining state of charge? Don't use the idiot lights, use a multimeter, leave the battery disconnect for an hour or so and use an SOC vs voltage table. Get a meter with a Hall Effect DC clamp on so you can measure your actual charge current as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Welchsoft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 1:26pm
This entire research started when boondocking (no sun for my solar) and figured a 2250 watt generator could charge up my batteries.  But the state park I was in only allowed two, 2 hours cycles of generator noise per day and on the first day we were running wild with electricity so my batteries got town to 50%.  The next day being more conservative, 40% so I fired up the generator and in two shifts of 1 hour then 2 hour generation I was only up to 50+% again.  Starting researching why un uneducated assumption on charging my Trojans was inaccurate.  Concluded that my WFCO charger on the generator never put out the volts to quickly charge so I started looking at new converters/chargers.  That got me thinking about IF I was charging my Trojans correctly in the first place.  In any even, that all led to this tread.  I still need to research the quickest way to charge up on generator and if a smart converter/charger, a stand alone charger or something would be helpful.  We have not been at this for long but some periods of the year will we be camping with hook ups, but the majority of the time we focus on State Parks which seem to have electricity about 50% of the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 1:08pm
I'm a retired engineer too so I know about overengineering. But with electrochemical stuff like batteries the complexities make it fuzzy enough that its a bit more of an art than a science relative to say electrical or software engineering.

I think its important to recognize that deep cycle lead-antimony batteries are not for everyone. SLI auto batteries generally use a lead calcium alloy which results in lower self discharge and charging rates and would probably be a better choice if you let your pod sit for long periods.

As an example, I have a car here at my Dad's house in Hawaii that due to Covid travel restrictions I was not able to run for two years. I'd left the battery in the car disconnected and uncharged for that period, connected it and it started right up and its run and starts the car just fine. That would definitely not be the case with golf cart deep cycle batteries. They would be dead as a door nail.

So if you need batteries that will tolerate a lot of cycling and either use your pod often or are willing to do the charge, watering, and equalization maintenance, then deep cycle GC batteries are for you. If you mostly camp with hookups and/or use your pod I intermittently and/or aren't much for battery maintence then get SLI or AGM batteries. If you want the best of both worlds then bite the cost bullet and convery to Li batteries, where there are a bunch of different types available as well. Different chemistries for different applications.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 12:48pm
If you are traveling with your 'Pod and not letting it sit unused for months, I don't think stratification will be so much an issue as the mechanical agitation of going down the road is going to help mix the electrolyte. We travel with our 'Pod. That is one reason I did not think it would be so much an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Welchsoft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 12:12pm
Me overengineer?  Software Architect by trade before I retired and that's why.  Thanks for the help.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 11:29am
Yes I think the conductors are 6 awg. At 40A and 15 ft that's about 0.6V drop, or about 5%. Pretty typical for 12V systems But don't forget that the charge current tapers off quickly as battery voltage increases and the cells teach full charge.

If you really want to do this precisely, you can get a charger with voltage sense wires and a remote temp sensor which can accurately measure voltage and tenp directly at the battery terminals and compensate accordingly. That is commonly done on large battery systems (for example large off grid solar applications) where there is a big capital investment and battery warranties to maintain. But IMHO you are overengineeing for a little 200 amp hour battery system.

Even in the Trojan maintenance manual it suggests getting chargers without equalization modes to perform the high voltage charge function by turning them off and back on.

An inexpensive way to evaluate if you need to and how well you are equalizing is to get a hydrometer and check the electrolyte specific gravity at the top of the cells. If a deep cycle battery needs equalizing its cells will have their electrolyte stratify and have lower and variable SG at the top of the cells. Jus hit them with any charger or power supply and let the gasses mix the electrolyte until the SG's are the same in all the cells. Equalization done.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Welchsoft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 5:58am
Or pull the charger module from my wfco 8735 and replace it with something 'smart' that meets the Trojan guidelines.  I've been researching but its becoming difficult to find on for my particular unit.  In addition, I'm wondering if a stand alone unit closer to the battery might be a better option since the wires 20 feet away from the battery to the charger look like #6.  I have not measured the current from the charger to the battery but imagine that with the long run of smaller cable there is quite a bit of resistance.

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