Elecgric Vehicles - F250 Lightning - Event Date: 16 Mar 2022 |
Post Reply | Page <12345 8> |
Author | |
David and Danette
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 24 Nov 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1215 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Calendar Event: Elecgric Vehicles - F250 Lightning Posted: 28 Mar 2022 at 5:02am |
When watching the video the biggest thing to overcome would be exchanging a almost new battery and receiving a old battery who would want to do that. If you bought a electric vehicle but not the battery and the battery instead was owned by the manufacturer. Then the manufacturer would have a along time agreement to always provide a good working battery for the vehicle owner. But I am sure there are a lot of very intelligent engineers that will find a way if it is to work at all.
|
|
2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
|
StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 9:10pm |
One thing needed for such a scheme to work is a fleet of vehicles with standardized location of battery packs and standardized connections. Every vehicle pictured in the video was a sub-compact, totally unsuited for towing. Reality is that the devil is always in the details. We drive vehicles of different size and shapes. Such a swap facility as pictured would not work when spacing and placement for wheels to lift the vehicle. I don't know why they don't build it with a pit like the old oil change facilities where vehicles would not need to be lifted. Even then, unless vehicle manufacturers agreed on locations or the facility were built with the flexibility to reconfigure for the vehicle, then it is a nice idea, but not ready for prime time.
|
|
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
|
lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 8:36pm |
I think there was a change in the video I originally watched on the CNBC site. It looks like they took the battery swapping segment out. I found the video and hope this link works. Whether such a swapping scheme would work is far from certain, but given the stakes we face with CO2 emissions, it is worth keeping an open mind. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl5UJQzP7NE If it doesn't work, the search I did was CNBC EV battery swapping.
One of the nice things about swaps, if they became common place, is that they'd vastly improve range for towing with an EV. Of course, that depends upon whether there is an adequate infrastructure. |
|
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
|
StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 7:55pm |
The original link to the swapping video was not able to be loaded, so I found another one. It is interesting that the vehicles pictured were small passenger cars. Nothing in that video convinces me that I would be able to get into such a facility for a battery swap with a vehicle large enough to tow with and hitched up to a trailer for a battery swap. Nice idea, but no go for me. For those in an urban area, this idea might work, but I don't see a network of these sufficient for a long trip in place for many, many years. How many of these swapping stations would need to be built? Where would they be located?
Meanwhile, perhaps a solid-state battery will be viable, but not any time soon according to this Forbes article: |
|
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 7:54pm |
Give me a break LA. Of course I looked at the article you shared. I'm well aware of what Nio and a couple of others are trying to do in China.
Did you look at the article I sent? It acknowledges the 5 minute swap, but points out that a 20 minute recharge is close enough that it's not worth doing it. (Nio claims to be able to do it in 3 minutes actually). Perhaps the issue here is that some folks are so focussed on replicating the gas station paradigm that they don't realize that that is not how people in the US reenergize their EVs Certainly battery swapping can be done, but that doesn't mean it's the best way. There would inevitably be vehicle design compromises involved, like in all engineering. I did not attack anything, I just said it was unlikely to happen here We'll see if it happens in China. It will be done there first or nowhere, so I don't get how doing that here makes us less dependant on the Chinese. We don't even have a charging standard yet. |
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 6:49pm |
OG, did you watch the CNBC report? They presented a pretty interesting solution to the battery swap issue and claim it can be done in less than 5 minutes, all automated. The video also claimed that in purchasing an EV that one can select a factory battery or the exchangeable one. Are you saying that they were untruthful?
The technology can exist for battery swaps, just like many do with propane tanks, if we set our minds to make it work. As with all technological innovations, you can be negative and come up with a million reasons why it won't work, but clever creative people look for ways to make it work. For my self, I'd like to see a viable EV industry here in North America. As for sharing tools, apparently you don't live in a community where there are tool lending libraries. They thrive and are built on community sharing, just like public book libraries. They are located all over the country, indeed, in many places in the world. Before you attack ideas, at least take a look at the CNBC report, which it appears that you did not do.
|
|
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 5:43pm |
Sorry LA but I'm with StephenH on this one. While the idea has merits, i doubt very much it's gonna happen, at least not here. Read this:
Battery swapping With 800V battery systems that can charge in 20 minutes it's just not worth the trouble of having a big automated machine extract and replace a 1000 lb or so battery in your car. And remember that this is quite rare, the vast majority of people with EVs almost always charge at home, so you are constraining battery/vehicle design and technology innovation for what is a small part of the EV market. Most EV makers now tightly integrate the batteries into the vehicle floor structure, they aren't designed to be readily accessible. This provides some very good benefits, structural rigidity, better space utilization, safety. Another reason the US market will resist doing it: we highly value independent property ownership and don't like being forced to share things we own. For example it would be very cost effective for us to share use of things like garden tractors and power tools but we don't do it. Re China, most of us are likely to buy Chinese EVs soon one way or another, just as we already buy Chinese TV screens, solar modules, wind turbines, and, for that matter Li batteries, along with a myriad of other products. China selected and already dominates all those strategic industries and, with the largest car market in the world and a centralized authoritarian government with the power to dictate both standards and top level industrial decision making, will almost certainly end up dominating the electric vehicle market as well. More EVs were sold in China in just December than in thee US in all of 2021. They're smart too, skipping over even trying to compete in the ICE market, where they would have to play too much technological catch up. |
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 3:43pm |
The battery packs are relatively uniform. The modular batteries inside the battery packs can be made to a uniform ASME standard, just like nuts and bolts, or saw blades. Either we can choose to do it or we'll all be buying Chinese electric cars. I'd prefer that we have a viable electric car manufacturing business here in North America. It's inevitable that some kind of non-ICE car is going to take over the market, likely electric, so perhaps the best approach, instead of saying no it's too hard or too complicated, is to look for ways to make it work.
I agree the idea of exchangeable battery packs has been around for quite a while, but now there is a system actually in use that works well. [StephenH, sounds like you didn't watch the video. It might be worth a gander.] There is absolutely no reason why basic battery shape and voltage standards cannot be set. Again, if we don't do it, we can count on the Chinese doing it for us.
|
|
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
|
StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 3:18pm |
That is not a new idea. I read about such an idea years ago. The problem is in battery size and compatibility. Manufacturers would need to standardize on size, shape, and capacity of battery packs for this to work. Look at your average Walmart's battery assortment. Car manufacturers can't even standardize starting batteries. While it is a good thought, I don't see it happening unless it is mandated. I would object to that because it would then stifle innovation which certainly is needed.
|
|
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
|
lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 2022 at 2:20pm |
That was exactly the idea the battery exchange folks were trying to accomplish, to have interchangeable batteries for all brands of electric cars, just like almost all gasoline works in all internal combustion engines.
|
|
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
|
Post Reply | Page <12345 8> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |