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12 to 6 v battery switchout
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Colt View Drop Down
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Posts: 383 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Colt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 12 to 6 v battery switchout
    Posted: 01 Jan 2023 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by EchoGale

Work got in my way and I didn't get pack to messing wiht the pod batteries as soon as I'd hoped. I followed Offgrid's instructions to be sure the wiring is correct and everything works as it should.
I have been checking the water level and have needed to add water a good bit more than with my old batteries so I think that likely was the problem.
there is an extra wire with both positive and negative connections it's thin. I bought my rpod used and its been there all along and have assumed it was the zamp wiring and I don't use it.  Wouldn't mind alternatve guesses if you have any.
Heading out Sunday for a couple of weeks; thanks again for all the help.


I have an extra pair of wires, too. They go to the tongue jack and don't go through the disconnect switch. The jack has a light on it.

A simple solution is a 25 watt or higher solar panel to maintain the batteries.
John
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Posts: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Quote EchoGale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 10:38am
Just a final update on all this: the new 6 volt batteries are working properly and they're great!

I've been all over Florida in the last couple of weeks including almost a week of dry camping with very little power discharge. FWIW, since I can only stay out as long as the house batteries last-- or are successfully recharged with my solar panel--I'm very careful about power usage and many of my little things have their own rechargeable/replaceable batteries.

I think with my new batteries I can stay out for weeks.  :)

I think the problem was the water level as I had not understood that my maintenance routine needed to be modified from the old 12v batteries.

Thanks again for the tutoring.  :)
Julie
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Posts: 2587 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 11:23am
Nice to hear that you got your battery problems fixed.  Have safe travels in the new year.
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 11:32am
EchoGale that all sounds great. Just one thing, when you say "as long as the house batteries last" shouldn't  mean that you're taking them all the way down to full discharge. That will kill even deep cycle batteries pretty quickly. Shoot for more like 50% SOC (state of charge) max unless it's an emergency. That will be somewhere around 12.2V on your multimeter when the batteries have been left open circuited (unloaded and not charging) awhile. 
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Posts: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Quote EchoGale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 1:04pm
Thanks, no I don't mean complete discharge. I was, however, under the impression that the 6V golf cart batteries could be discharged down more than that though. Am I mistaken?
Julie
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jato View Drop Down
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Posts: 3220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by EchoGale

Thanks, no I don't mean complete discharge. I was, however, under the impression that the 6V golf cart batteries could be discharged down more than that though. Am I mistaken?

A single 6v battery can safely be taken down to 6.1v (50% S.O.C.) without damaging it.  If you are reading the meter with both batteries hooked together than what offgrid states (12.2v) is correct. 

Yes, please keep an eye on the electrolyte levels, keep filled with distilled water only.  My oldest 12v battery (Interstate deep cycle group size 24) will turn 12 years old in 3 months.  Proper care and maintenance is key with battery life/longevity.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2023 at 2:23am
EchoGale, yes, deep cycle golf cart batteries will tolerate more and deeper cycles than SLI (starter, lights ignition  (aka auto batteries) or dual use (aka   marine) batteries. But of course tolerating the cycles isn't the same thing as liking them. So with any lead acid battery, around 50% is about as deep as you want to plan to go on a daily basis if you want to get some  life out of them. 

That being said, since you live in a hot climate your battery life will be relatively shorter because what's called shelf life (aka corrosion life). This is just inherent in lead acid batteries because the sufuric acid is constantly corroding the lead plates, and the hotter it is the faster the corrosion rate. So you won't get Jato's Michigan climate battery longevity in FL. Plus deep cycle batteries usually corrode faster than SLI batteries because the chemistry is optimized for cycling rather than shelf life. It's a trade off like most things in life. 

Probably you won't get more than about 4 years out of your golf cart batteries where you live even if you're really careful about cycle depth. 

Long story short, don't be afraid to cycle the batteries you have now when you need to, while avoiding going  below about 50% as you can. Hope that's clear. 


So, don't 
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Posts: 3220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2023 at 11:58am
An interesting caveat to this who discussion is how long golf cart batteries last in golf carts.  Here in the north country we would be replacing batteries after three seasons, and the season lasts 7 months or a touch longer.  However those exact same batteries in the same name-brand and year golf cart will easily last 4 or 5 seasons in Florida where they are basically run all year long.  Or looking at it this way, in Florida those batteries will give up to 60 months of service before replacement whereas in Michigan you only get 21 months of service.  Our maintenance on batteries was stellar, keeping batteries clean, keeping an eye on electrolyte levels and filling with distilled water when necessary, keeping contacts corrosion free, charging cart after every 36 holes of play.  Have not been able to figure out why the difference in battery life since as has been noted, the life of the battery ought to be longer in cooler climes (as the batteries owned by me attest to) than in warmer areas such as Florida.
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Posts: 6288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2023 at 12:03pm
Could the difference be the consistent use in Florida as opposed to the periods of non-use in Michigan?
StephenH
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2023 at 7:03am
I think there are a few things related the Jato's truly exceptional battery life vs typical golf cart deep cycle lifetimes. Most people get 3 to 5 years from golf cart batteries. 

1) SLI and dual use "marine" batteries have a different chemistries from deep cycle lead acid batteries. IIRC the deep cycle batteries use a lead antimony alloy which makes the plates more phyically robust (so they can handle the mechanical effects of deep cycling which consumes and redeposits the lead on the plates). But the antimony makes for higher self discharge  rates. Also deep cycle batteries usually use higher specific gravity sulfuric acid (so that there is more acid there to be consumed during discharge).  Both those chemistry differences increase deep cycle battery internal corrosion rates vs SLIs so shorten their shelf life.

2) There is a rule of thumb chemists use to assess the effect of temperature on reaction rates. That is roughly, to assume a doubling of reaction rate for every 10C temp rise. Internal corrosion in a battery is just another chemical reaction  so if a battery in Michigan  is 10C colder than a battery in FL it should last twice as long  everything else being equal. And looking at annual average temp is misleading because the doubling corrosion rate factor is an exponential function, meaning that the extreme temps high and low will tend to dominate lifetime,  not the averages. 

3, jato is clearly an expert on how to manage batteries  from his  long experience with golf cart maintenance, plus he is very careful in monitoring hus battery system state of charge. 

4) And yes he has a shorter use season than EchoGale does.

So he is able to extract more life from his batteries than pretty much anyone. Including me, I'm not anywhere near as careful as jato is and live in a warmer climate, and run deep cycle golf cart batteries not SLIs or "marine" batts. So I've always hitting the 4 or 5 year lifetimes too.  The way I look at it golf cart batteries are kind of an insurance policy for those of us who aren't going to be perfect in our battery management techniques and will wind up deep cycling them more than we'd like from time to time. 

Of course  Li batteries blow away PbA's in all these areas and theyre so cheap now that for those of us who are a bit electrically handy they have become a almost a compelling upgrade. And since it's mandatory that Li's have a BMS for safety, you do t need to be a super conscientious operator as much with them. The BMS provides that last line of defense fircyou automatically.  
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